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[Music]

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and good afternoon from Philadelphia

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Frank here with another episode of UFO

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news network Sunday we're ready to go

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let's not waste any time

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let me bring on my co-host chant Hannah

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to introduce our panel and our topic for

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today hi jet

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hi Frank thank you for introducing you

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on the show we have a very very special

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show today at sea

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Phoenix MUFON camp a boot camp special

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and we have some fabulous people on that

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is Jim Mann Arizona State Director and

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co-director of Phoenix MUFON we have

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Stacey Wright and she is the assistant

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director of Phoenix MUFON we have Mark

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Dantonio and we've had mark on the show

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before he is a MUFON chief photo video

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analyst in his degree is in astronomy

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and he specializes in the study of

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exoplanets we also have Shane heard

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we've had him multiple times on our show

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and he's a field investigator for

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Phoenix MUFON we also have Russell as

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bill and he's been on our show before

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he's a field investigator for Arizona

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MUFON then we also have Tara she's a

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field investigator for Arizona MUFON we

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also have Maryann who is a field

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investigator for Phoenix MUFON we have

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Gwen who's new fonts experienced her

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team member and field investigator we

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also have John Dover he is a Navajo

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Nation's arranger and we will be

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listening to him regarding his sharing a

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little bit of background regarding UFO

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and the phenomenon and I actually had

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the privilege of interviewing him at the

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Phoenix lights show that dr. linkit I

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had this year in person thank you

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everybody for being on the show if

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there's anybody I miss please let me

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know you missed me

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Sharon and Sharon Jackson is the cydonia

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MUFON director and field investigator

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and Thank You Sharon for being on the

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show today we're very grateful to have

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you on welcome everybody on to the show

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well I wanted to go ahead and start

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by asking Jim Mann and Stacey writes

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about the Phoenix of the mufon boot camp

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that you had can you let us know when

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you had it and why why would you have

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that was that something that was

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required or is that something that you

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requested and was approved and then had

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it let me just say something this is Jim

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the boot camp that we conducted here

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this year I have to give credit to the

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assistant state my assistant state

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director Stacey Wright Stacey is the

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engine behind all of this she is the the

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person that does all the boots on the

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ground hard work putting it all together

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so I'll let Stacey tell you how it all

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turned out okay thank you yeah the the

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boot camp is actually a MUFON

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internationals field investigator boot

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camp and what we did is last year when

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we had the first one that had been held

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in about oh maybe there had been one

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previously seven years ago I believe but

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there just hadn't been anything

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happening lately and I just came up with

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the idea that we need to put on a boot

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camp this would be a great place to have

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it we've got the perfect weather during

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the month of November let's have

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something here and we'll do the work so

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Phoenix MUFON has great people in our

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organization actually all through the

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state of Arizona so we got everyone that

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we knew here that could help us out and

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we have people with such skills and

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talents that we could supply all that

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within ourselves and we decided to put

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this on do all the work for move on and

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move on gets the registration money for

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it to go towards you know our coffers so

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we were really happy to do this and last

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year was our first one and it turned out

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really well so we decided to duplicate

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it again this year and it turned out

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perfect

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in addition so we've had a great time

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doing it and we're just happy to do this

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for a move on before we get going on the

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order that you do the boot camp and

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because of course I know you have a

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certain order you would do that in a

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chronological order what I was going to

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ask you is do you have people from all

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around the world or other states that go

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to your boot camp

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and if so why you like the reason why

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I'm asking that is a wouldn't residents

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of Arizona only be allowed to go or is

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that not true is that a myth once you're

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a field investigator from MUFON you

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could be a field investigator anywhere

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you just have to be you know in

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communication with the state director of

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that state and let them know that you

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want to do your work with them there so

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yeah you can become a field investigator

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for move on and maintain that status no

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matter what state you live in so we did

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have people come from let's see last

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year we had some people from Canada and

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the United States

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this year's same thing we had one member

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from Canada and the rest of the United

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States but they come from all over so

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it's not just an Arizona thing they come

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from all over the place and everyone

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became really good friends at the end of

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three days and they just really formed a

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fellowship and it was really nice to see

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that okay you have something called the

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scientific method in MUFON that you all

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rely upon heavily and I wanted to quote

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Roger Stan Kovac in MUFON who is also

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the national director I believe of

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Australia New Zealand

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MUFON if I'm incorrect about that please

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correct me Stacey Jim or anyone he said

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in MUFON we attempt to exhaust all

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possible avenues to exclude all possible

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prosaic explanations when we can't still

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explain the object we label it as an

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unknown when I was going to ask Jim and

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Stacey and then I'll move on to the

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other guests after Jim and Stacey let us

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know about the chronological order of

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their boot camp Jim and Stacey why do

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you use the scientific method what good

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is it what does it do for your

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organization and for the folks who end

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up being exposed to that method well if

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we simply start with what is mo fons

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investigation of UFOs for the benefit of

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all and

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- we are yes we are the ones that are

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open-minded enough to include and accept

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but when we do an investigation we're

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looking for a disposition we're looking

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for some sort of final conclusion after

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we review all of our data and now the

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last thing we do is run to the et

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solution we look for a more scientific a

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more grounded a more commonplace

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solution to a case somebody sees funny

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lights in the sky what we don't write

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you know we're the last people that's

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gonna say well it's not et but then

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we're also gonna Excel we're gonna

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exhaust every effort effort to to find

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what it could be other than you know the

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mother ship so we're the last ones I

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think to go to ET side of the room and

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say eh it was it was aliens we so I mean

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I did I don't know if that's answering

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your question chant maybe you know

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somebody else that in in MUFON who is

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very good at scientific methods and and

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what-have-you would be Mark Dantonio and

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so if Mark is still on the line maybe

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Mark can help answer that - yeah mark

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please do try man if you wish

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well sure I mean the scientific method

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is the basis of science going back

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you'll be on 17th century so it starts

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with asked question are we alone

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and it goes through finding information

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getting looking for research doing the

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research and when you do the research

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that allows you to construct a

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hypothesis right a working model of what

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you think is going on and then you

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devise an experiment to test that

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hypothesis and you have to be fully

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willing as we all are fully willing to

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let that be something that could fail

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you have to be willing to allow your

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hypothesis to be wrong and you ask the

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questions is this hypothesis

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working is it answering the question

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well it could be no er yes you analyze

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you draw conclusions from the

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experiments and if the results aligned

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with your hypothesis then you

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communicate the results if they don't

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then what you do is you re construct

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another hypothesis you go back through

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this again and think okay what's really

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going on then alright and that's really

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what this this whole process is about

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and you know I've always done that with

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every photo I've analyzed with every

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video I've analyzed

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I never go at it looking at it as this

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is an alien craft let me just you know

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prove it I say this is an object in the

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sky what could it be and you know I

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always look at it as when you when you

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go through and you look at the

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scientific method or when you go through

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and look at your results of your your

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your experimentation you have to say

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this is like a funnel you you bury your

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very hard in the data I'm very hard on

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the data people call me at the bunker

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that's not true I'm not at the bunker

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all I'm trying to do is get to the

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bottom of the mystery I've had things

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happen to me that I cannot explain so

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you know and I believe that that alien

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life has reached us in the past and

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presently so I'm not saying that death

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has never happened I'm saying that it

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probably has however being hard on the

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data is is what we have to do because if

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we don't we're doing a disservice to all

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who follow us we have to make sure the

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results are accurate we have to test and

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we have to be willing to be wrong see so

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and that's what move funds about and

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many times and move on you reach people

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that you know agree with you and you

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also reach people to say oh you're just

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full of baloney you know you're not you

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know you're not really doing the data

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properly do it doing the data proper

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service but the bottom line is we can

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all leap to the wrong conclusion so the

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idea is don't leap you take it in small

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bite-sized chunks and you make your way

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slowly inexorably to the conclusion

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whether it's the one you want or whether

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it's one you don't expect or whether

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it's completely

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and you have to be willing to accept all

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those outcomes okay mark thank you very

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much for that that was a great summary

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regarding the question I got and then

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Jim and Stacey would you mind doing us

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the privilege of actually starting the

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show regarding the very first thing you

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do in boot camp and then we can go ahead

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and bring everybody else in because

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naturally they participated so it'll be

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really nice to hear you

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I'll introduce us into a boot camp as if

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we're walking right on into your chapter

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and we're going to start today what

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happens okay well the first thing we do

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is try to get people comfortable with

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each other so we had kind of a

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meet-and-greet thing on Friday nights

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so people fly into Phoenix on Friday we

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have a meet and greet that night right

273
00:12:51,140 --> 00:12:49,830
next door to the hotel at a bar and

274
00:12:53,210 --> 00:12:51,150
grill right there so they let us use

275
00:12:55,070 --> 00:12:53,220
their big patio and so everyone got to

276
00:12:58,130 --> 00:12:55,080
know everyone there by having some

277
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:58,140
beverages and some food and we were

278
00:13:02,420 --> 00:13:00,720
there for a few hours that night then we

279
00:13:04,910 --> 00:13:02,430
reconvene the next morning Saturday

280
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:04,920
morning at 8 a.m. sharp so we have 4

281
00:13:09,790 --> 00:13:08,160
hours of classroom work at the the hotel

282
00:13:12,350 --> 00:13:09,800
has a big meeting room there that we use

283
00:13:13,820 --> 00:13:12,360
so it's the same hotel where everyone is

284
00:13:15,620 --> 00:13:13,830
staying which makes it really convenient

285
00:13:17,810 --> 00:13:15,630
no one needs to have a rental car at all

286
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:17,820
and so we have four hours of classroom

287
00:13:22,070 --> 00:13:19,770
work we break for lunch and then we go

288
00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:22,080
out and we have four hours of forensic

289
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:24,510
field work out in the desert at a spot

290
00:13:31,850 --> 00:13:28,050
that we had allocated and then we had

291
00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:31,860
treated them to a campout dinner there

292
00:13:36,380 --> 00:13:34,110
right on-site and then a sky watch which

293
00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:36,390
was also the second part of our

294
00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:38,310
astronomy lesson that we did earlier

295
00:13:44,690 --> 00:13:41,580
that day so the the second day is pretty

296
00:13:46,730 --> 00:13:44,700
much a mirror of the first day although

297
00:13:48,410 --> 00:13:46,740
the second day we had actually some

298
00:13:50,630 --> 00:13:48,420
practicals that they needed to work on

299
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:50,640
for the forensic fieldwork so it was a

300
00:13:55,070 --> 00:13:53,130
little bit of a test and then we went

301
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:55,080
back to the hotel the the second night

302
00:14:00,050 --> 00:13:57,360
and had a big dinner that we treated

303
00:14:01,820 --> 00:14:00,060
them all to poolside so we had you know

304
00:14:05,210 --> 00:14:01,830
a big grilled chicken dinner and wheat

305
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:05,220
then we gave everyone a certificate of

306
00:14:09,830 --> 00:14:07,680
completion that attended the boot camp

307
00:14:11,330 --> 00:14:09,840
and there was just you know like I said

308
00:14:14,510 --> 00:14:11,340
before there was lots of friendships

309
00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:14,520
made everyone exchanged email addresses

310
00:14:18,810 --> 00:14:17,110
and these people are

311
00:14:20,490 --> 00:14:18,820
I know the people that we had last year

312
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,500
they're still writing each other all of

313
00:14:23,730 --> 00:14:22,480
her Facebook and emails from last year

314
00:14:26,190 --> 00:14:23,740
so they really created some great

315
00:14:27,930 --> 00:14:26,200
friendships and then that way when they

316
00:14:30,060 --> 00:14:27,940
do become field investigators for their

317
00:14:32,430 --> 00:14:30,070
state you know they've got a really good

318
00:14:34,019 --> 00:14:32,440
understanding of what it takes and they

319
00:14:35,970 --> 00:14:34,029
start off their training really well

320
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:35,980
because they got a concentrated weekend

321
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:38,050
of it to begin with and they've got some

322
00:14:42,420 --> 00:14:39,850
friends along the way so it just really

323
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:42,430
works out great and that helps keep the

324
00:14:48,630 --> 00:14:45,490
mutual UFO network the network that it

325
00:14:50,850 --> 00:14:48,640
needs to be exactly when when we have

326
00:14:52,650 --> 00:14:50,860
these boot camps and so many people meet

327
00:14:55,710 --> 00:14:52,660
each other that just broadens their

328
00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:55,720
their their resource base they can act

329
00:15:00,600 --> 00:14:57,970
there's nothing wrong with with a field

330
00:15:03,329 --> 00:15:00,610
investor investigator calling another

331
00:15:07,199 --> 00:15:03,339
field investigator from some other state

332
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:07,209
just ask opinions and get an idea about

333
00:15:12,630 --> 00:15:09,250
this or that so the whole idea of

334
00:15:14,759 --> 00:15:12,640
working together as a team really comes

335
00:15:16,290 --> 00:15:14,769
into play when we do these boot camps

336
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:16,300
and that's the thing that I've noticed

337
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:18,490
is that that the friendships that are

338
00:15:26,610 --> 00:15:23,610
bonded and it's just a great thing so I

339
00:15:32,250 --> 00:15:26,620
have a question for Sharon Jackson and

340
00:15:34,079 --> 00:15:32,260
that is Sharon do you go to Phoenix

341
00:15:36,210 --> 00:15:34,089
MUFON for the boot camps or do you ever

342
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:36,220
have boot camps where you're out in

343
00:15:40,850 --> 00:15:37,839
Sedona or is Phoenix

344
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:40,860
MUFON sort of the boot camp headquarters

345
00:15:50,460 --> 00:15:46,240
well so far we have Sedona MUFON is

346
00:15:55,590 --> 00:15:50,470
small we have roughly 20 people at a

347
00:15:58,680 --> 00:15:55,600
meeting so so far it's been Phoenix

348
00:16:01,980 --> 00:15:58,690
MUFON has been the headquarters for boot

349
00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:01,990
camp fantastic thank you very much for

350
00:16:07,650 --> 00:16:04,140
that input I had a question for the

351
00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:07,660
MUFON field investigators we have and

352
00:16:13,860 --> 00:16:11,529
that is what was your take away from the

353
00:16:18,139 --> 00:16:13,870
boot camp what were some of the

354
00:16:22,380 --> 00:16:18,149
takeaways that you had Shane tarek when

355
00:16:27,579 --> 00:16:22,390
well Sharon any anybody if you wouldn't

356
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:31,519
Marianna you have come in well what I

357
00:16:39,730 --> 00:16:36,810
might take away is all 41 of our

358
00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:39,740
participants that came for the boot camp

359
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:44,639
they just came away one camaraderie with

360
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:48,690
each other and also learned quite a few

361
00:17:00,769 --> 00:16:52,649
things about first of all how to do an

362
00:17:02,900 --> 00:17:00,779
actual CMS case little tips of what

363
00:17:07,299 --> 00:17:02,910
should they look for in the person that

364
00:17:12,169 --> 00:17:07,309
has made the CMS case maybe their

365
00:17:13,250 --> 00:17:12,179
personality their basically their body

366
00:17:17,419 --> 00:17:13,260
language

367
00:17:22,669 --> 00:17:17,429
what they talk about and they've been

368
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:22,679
able to come away with some new tips on

369
00:17:28,039 --> 00:17:25,770
how to do a CMS case which I thought was

370
00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:28,049
really neat and they were just there

371
00:17:34,370 --> 00:17:31,110
they were so upbeat they wanted to learn

372
00:17:36,820 --> 00:17:34,380
and everyone was just amazing all of the

373
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:36,830
participants in the at the boot camp

374
00:17:41,659 --> 00:17:39,450
Sharon can you explain real quick about

375
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:41,669
CMS can you tell us a little bit about

376
00:17:48,289 --> 00:17:43,530
that because I'm not sure everybody's

377
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:48,299
familiar with well CMS is our way of

378
00:17:56,140 --> 00:17:52,650
recording our investigation it used to

379
00:17:59,150 --> 00:17:56,150
be quite unwieldy but people have now

380
00:18:04,880 --> 00:17:59,160
streamlined it and it's become much

381
00:18:10,010 --> 00:18:04,890
easier but it starts with where when why

382
00:18:13,850 --> 00:18:10,020
how and a little bit about the person as

383
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,860
well is that a database then no that

384
00:18:21,650 --> 00:18:15,600
that you can share with other people

385
00:18:24,140 --> 00:18:21,660
move on okay oh yes great so we still

386
00:18:26,810 --> 00:18:24,150
have a few people left to talk about the

387
00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:26,820
takeaway that they had from the MUFON

388
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:28,710
boot camp and that would be Russell

389
00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:32,160
Shane I believe Gwen and Tara hey champ

390
00:18:35,690 --> 00:18:34,110
this is Stacey you know what the perfect

391
00:18:38,299 --> 00:18:35,700
person to answer this question would be

392
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:38,309
terrible because Tara attended last

393
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:40,890
year's boot camp is just a newbie she

394
00:18:45,170 --> 00:18:42,960
Canfield investigator for us and then

395
00:18:47,540 --> 00:18:45,180
she participated again this year because

396
00:18:49,910 --> 00:18:47,550
she had such great time last year so she

397
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:49,920
was you know not only a participant but

398
00:18:54,260 --> 00:18:52,320
she was also at the time a certified

399
00:18:55,970 --> 00:18:54,270
field investigator and then she ended up

400
00:18:57,860 --> 00:18:55,980
helping us teach one of the classes as

401
00:19:02,870 --> 00:18:57,870
well so Tara's probably got a lot of

402
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:02,880
input for this well this is Tara and I'm

403
00:19:08,990 --> 00:19:06,210
very grateful to be here and I was so

404
00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:09,000
grateful to attend both boot camps my

405
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:11,310
takeaway I can tell you was it gave me a

406
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:14,400
tremendous amount of confidence and I

407
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:19,050
knew nothing about any of this - about

408
00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:21,330
two months before the boot camp last

409
00:19:28,490 --> 00:19:25,710
year and so I I have no experience about

410
00:19:31,790 --> 00:19:28,500
anything or investigations or move on or

411
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:31,800
anything so it gave me the tools I

412
00:19:38,270 --> 00:19:36,210
needed in a live form of visual form

413
00:19:40,790 --> 00:19:38,280
because I'm very visual person so it

414
00:19:43,250 --> 00:19:40,800
gave me filled work practice helped me

415
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:43,260
understand the tools of the trade gave

416
00:19:49,310 --> 00:19:46,770
me a lot of the do's and don'ts a whole

417
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,320
bunch of resources and it was just a

418
00:19:53,570 --> 00:19:51,360
tremendous amount of information that I

419
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:53,580
didn't know I needed and I needed it

420
00:19:57,260 --> 00:19:55,410
desperately and so that's why I went

421
00:20:01,010 --> 00:19:57,270
again I don't think you can have enough

422
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:01,020
training or education but the people I

423
00:20:09,050 --> 00:20:04,850
met were so kind and generous with their

424
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:09,060
information and it was just it was real

425
00:20:11,690 --> 00:20:10,050
like I said it gave me a lot of

426
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:11,700
confidence to know that I'm not alone

427
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:12,810
and I'm on the right track

428
00:20:17,690 --> 00:20:15,330
and and I guess that that's about it

429
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:17,700
that I was so grateful to attend and I'd

430
00:20:20,930 --> 00:20:18,330
go again

431
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:20,940
Thank You Tara for that and by the way I

432
00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:23,280
think you a lot of everybody will agree

433
00:20:27,940 --> 00:20:24,900
with you when you say you can't have

434
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:27,950
enough training regarding MUFON

435
00:20:31,490 --> 00:20:29,970
investigation but go ahead the other

436
00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:31,500
person who is going to speak sorry about

437
00:20:37,450 --> 00:20:34,310
that no that's okay it's mark again

438
00:20:41,210 --> 00:20:37,460
Tara was on the team that I was working

439
00:20:42,410 --> 00:20:41,220
with out in the boot camp and for

440
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:42,420
someone who didn't have any experience

441
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:44,010
she sure came off like she knew what the

442
00:20:50,180 --> 00:20:45,360
heck she was doing so she did a really

443
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:50,190
good job and so you know you see in a

444
00:20:53,690 --> 00:20:52,080
short amount of time the people that are

445
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:53,700
gifted to be able to do this kind of

446
00:20:56,419 --> 00:20:54,179
work

447
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:56,429
they kind of rise to the top you know

448
00:21:00,049 --> 00:20:58,559
and I think that you know she's one of

449
00:21:02,649 --> 00:21:00,059
the people that's that's rising to the

450
00:21:05,179 --> 00:21:02,659
top in that way they come in without

451
00:21:07,549 --> 00:21:05,189
blinders on they come in open-minded and

452
00:21:10,029 --> 00:21:07,559
then the result when they leave is they

453
00:21:12,619 --> 00:21:10,039
have a whole new suite of Technology and

454
00:21:14,719 --> 00:21:12,629
capabilities that they almost didn't

455
00:21:16,609 --> 00:21:14,729
even know that you got until later when

456
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:16,619
they start to do their investigations so

457
00:21:22,819 --> 00:21:19,049
I think that that's something really

458
00:21:25,899 --> 00:21:22,829
good thank you for that input really

459
00:21:28,969 --> 00:21:25,909
appreciate that I believe we have Gwen

460
00:21:34,039 --> 00:21:28,979
Gwen would you mind contributing to that

461
00:21:35,809 --> 00:21:34,049
topic can you hear me okay I'm sorry i

462
00:21:37,879 --> 00:21:35,819
unmuted and I wasn't sure I could get

463
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:37,889
back on again um I don't really have a

464
00:21:42,919 --> 00:21:40,559
lot to share about a takeaway from the

465
00:21:45,199 --> 00:21:42,929
boot camp because I am NOT an active

466
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:45,209
field investigator I have been in the

467
00:21:49,459 --> 00:21:47,369
past but I'm not now now I'm an active

468
00:21:51,379 --> 00:21:49,469
member of MUFON experience her research

469
00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:51,389
team which I could talk about a little

470
00:21:56,509 --> 00:21:52,769
bit later if you're interested in

471
00:22:00,649 --> 00:21:56,519
hearing about that so I did I came and

472
00:22:02,299 --> 00:22:00,659
did a talk on that aspect but then I had

473
00:22:04,069 --> 00:22:02,309
to go because I had family who was

474
00:22:07,189 --> 00:22:04,079
visiting in town and I was not able to

475
00:22:09,139 --> 00:22:07,199
attend the rest of it but um I've heard

476
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:09,149
a lot of feedback on that I'm sure it

477
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:10,799
was wonderful and I hope maybe I can do

478
00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:12,809
it next year hands thank you for that

479
00:22:21,109 --> 00:22:17,609
and Shane yeah what I was thinking is is

480
00:22:23,389 --> 00:22:21,119
the fact that we have were members of a

481
00:22:27,169 --> 00:22:23,399
volunteer organization but we got some

482
00:22:29,179 --> 00:22:27,179
top quality training you know and that

483
00:22:32,709 --> 00:22:29,189
that doesn't happen a lot I know

484
00:22:36,589 --> 00:22:32,719
volunteer organizations so both on the

485
00:22:37,819 --> 00:22:36,599
field side and on the classroom side I

486
00:22:42,409 --> 00:22:37,829
thought the training was just

487
00:22:44,179 --> 00:22:42,419
outstanding is so helpful great thank

488
00:22:46,399 --> 00:22:44,189
you very much for contributing to that

489
00:22:51,009 --> 00:22:46,409
topic wanted to talk a little bit about

490
00:22:53,599 --> 00:22:51,019
how to conduct an interview

491
00:22:55,999 --> 00:22:53,609
aside from filling out the CMS sighting

492
00:22:57,919 --> 00:22:56,009
reports properly filling out the proper

493
00:23:00,229 --> 00:22:57,929
forms it's important to know how to

494
00:23:01,789 --> 00:23:00,239
conduct an interview I understand that

495
00:23:04,209 --> 00:23:01,799
there could be a 2-person rule

496
00:23:06,619 --> 00:23:04,219
can anybody contribute to that topic

497
00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:06,629
anyone and if you do please be sure to

498
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:07,470
say

499
00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:10,559
your name thank you chant Allah this

500
00:23:16,249 --> 00:23:14,700
isn't and I'm ahead as a matter of fact

501
00:23:19,549 --> 00:23:16,259
talking about the interview

502
00:23:21,169 --> 00:23:19,559
interrogation myself and my partner Dave

503
00:23:23,930 --> 00:23:21,179
rich who is another Gilbert police

504
00:23:26,289 --> 00:23:23,940
officer for 21 years we were the ones

505
00:23:28,970 --> 00:23:26,299
that taught the interview interrogation

506
00:23:31,999 --> 00:23:28,980
to the in the bootcamp

507
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:32,009
and our mission with that was basically

508
00:23:41,299 --> 00:23:36,960
is we were talking about how to conduct

509
00:23:44,450 --> 00:23:41,309
a good thorough investigation we started

510
00:23:46,970 --> 00:23:44,460
off with it what is the definition of an

511
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,980
actual interview so that was the first

512
00:23:51,379 --> 00:23:48,960
thing that we wanted to get across to

513
00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:51,389
everyone and then we did talk about the

514
00:23:59,149 --> 00:23:55,769
do's and don'ts of an interview and we

515
00:24:04,460 --> 00:23:59,159
went through each one between body

516
00:24:07,369 --> 00:24:04,470
language between the verbal and one of

517
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:07,379
the biggest things is to know that when

518
00:24:11,810 --> 00:24:09,090
you do an interview especially with

519
00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:11,820
MUFON 90% of the interviews are going to

520
00:24:18,769 --> 00:24:15,600
be telephonic so we we give people tips

521
00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:18,779
on what to listen for when you're doing

522
00:24:24,499 --> 00:24:22,110
a telephonic interview about 10 percent

523
00:24:27,230 --> 00:24:24,509
is an in-person interview with someone

524
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:27,240
and we talk about to the participants of

525
00:24:32,509 --> 00:24:30,240
the bootcamp on biggest thing is body

526
00:24:34,730 --> 00:24:32,519
language what are they telling you

527
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:34,740
without saying a word that is the

528
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:36,330
biggest thing we talk about also

529
00:24:43,639 --> 00:24:39,360
definitely have to people go with you on

530
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,649
an in-person interview the safety tips

531
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:45,840
especially as being police officers we

532
00:24:51,139 --> 00:24:48,090
always give safety tips to everyone if

533
00:24:56,779 --> 00:24:51,149
you're going out to a strange place to

534
00:25:02,419 --> 00:24:56,789
do an interview with someone the another

535
00:25:04,610 --> 00:25:02,429
thing is that don't beat a person during

536
00:25:06,529 --> 00:25:04,620
an interview you don't lead that person

537
00:25:09,769 --> 00:25:06,539
with leading questions you always ask

538
00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:09,779
opened in questions so that's that's the

539
00:25:14,899 --> 00:25:12,840
tips that we give someone or the

540
00:25:17,570 --> 00:25:14,909
participants in the bootcamp when we do

541
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:17,580
for teaching them the interview

542
00:25:21,910 --> 00:25:19,850
interrogation part of the book

543
00:25:25,810 --> 00:25:21,920
how can you give us some examples of

544
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:25,820
some open-ended questions what you would

545
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:28,880
say to someone is you know first of all

546
00:25:36,940 --> 00:25:32,410
of course have them tell their story

547
00:25:39,780 --> 00:25:36,950
after that then say they said well you

548
00:25:44,290 --> 00:25:39,790
don't ask well what color was the

549
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:44,300
spacecraft that you saw 20 feet from you

550
00:25:51,370 --> 00:25:49,250
you ask what did you see when did you

551
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:51,380
see it where did you see it of course

552
00:25:57,310 --> 00:25:53,120
you go through the who what when where

553
00:25:59,830 --> 00:25:57,320
why in hell you never if they you know

554
00:26:02,170 --> 00:25:59,840
say oh well what color was the spaceship

555
00:26:04,450 --> 00:26:02,180
that you saw if they just said they saw

556
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:04,460
an object don't put things into their

557
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:08,450
head say what was explained what sapote

558
00:26:16,510 --> 00:26:11,120
you saw that night and let them explain

559
00:26:19,090 --> 00:26:16,520
that to you in detail also I'm never to

560
00:26:21,490 --> 00:26:19,100
trainees right Marion and an experienced

561
00:26:23,530 --> 00:26:21,500
investigator and if possible a student

562
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:23,540
investigator but never to trainees

563
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:27,410
together or to students rather what what

564
00:26:33,370 --> 00:26:30,130
do you mean interview right yeah

565
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:33,380
regarding investigators who are going to

566
00:26:38,140 --> 00:26:36,410
investigate a case never have two people

567
00:26:40,780 --> 00:26:38,150
who are learning how to do a case

568
00:26:43,150 --> 00:26:40,790
together always have an experienced

569
00:26:46,270 --> 00:26:43,160
person with a student but not two

570
00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:46,280
trainees yeah I meant to what we call

571
00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:49,760
field what we call field not field

572
00:26:53,740 --> 00:26:51,710
investigators but few training

573
00:26:56,500 --> 00:26:53,750
investigators it's called an FTI

574
00:27:00,160 --> 00:26:56,510
a field training investigator we try to

575
00:27:02,770 --> 00:27:00,170
have an experiencer anytime that we have

576
00:27:05,860 --> 00:27:02,780
a new field investor come investigator

577
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:05,870
come in to MUFON there is always an

578
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:09,050
experienced field investigator that

579
00:27:13,780 --> 00:27:12,320
teaches them and gives them tips and

580
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:13,790
they do that for about three or four

581
00:27:20,350 --> 00:27:18,710
cases and then they will go out and of

582
00:27:22,990 --> 00:27:20,360
course start their own investigations

583
00:27:25,870 --> 00:27:23,000
but yes anytime there's a new field

584
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:25,880
investigator there are always teamed up

585
00:27:31,090 --> 00:27:28,930
with a veteran field investigator

586
00:27:33,610 --> 00:27:31,100
regarding safety which you mentioned

587
00:27:36,250 --> 00:27:33,620
briefly if there's a witness

588
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:36,260
a investigators not feeling comfortable

589
00:27:41,850 --> 00:27:39,770
with they just don't feel comfortable

590
00:27:44,350 --> 00:27:41,860
being around them they feel like maybe

591
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:44,360
there's something amiss there may be

592
00:27:49,330 --> 00:27:46,640
possible danger or anything along those

593
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:49,340
lines it's probably just important for

594
00:27:55,659 --> 00:27:53,450
that investigator to make up an excuse

595
00:27:59,049 --> 00:27:55,669
and get out of there if they feel

596
00:28:01,269 --> 00:27:59,059
they're in danger is that correct yes

597
00:28:04,269 --> 00:28:01,279
definitely what we do is before you even

598
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:04,279
go out you always tell whether another

599
00:28:09,340 --> 00:28:07,520
field investigator a relative maybe the

600
00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:09,350
state director assistant state director

601
00:28:14,529 --> 00:28:12,200
chief investigator you say hey at this

602
00:28:18,850 --> 00:28:14,539
day at this time on going out to meet

603
00:28:21,549 --> 00:28:18,860
this person for an interview you give

604
00:28:24,159 --> 00:28:21,559
another person dates and times that

605
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:24,169
you're going and where you're going and

606
00:28:30,279 --> 00:28:26,330
say I'm gonna be gone for maybe one hour

607
00:28:33,340 --> 00:28:30,289
give them a certain time everybody has a

608
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:33,350
sixth sense with them you know the

609
00:28:38,019 --> 00:28:34,970
little hairs on the back of your head

610
00:28:40,450 --> 00:28:38,029
stand up if you ever feel that way to

611
00:28:43,630 --> 00:28:40,460
the slightest degree yes says hey you

612
00:28:46,690 --> 00:28:43,640
know I'm sorry make up a story I'm sorry

613
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:46,700
I have to leave something came up I'll

614
00:28:51,970 --> 00:28:48,770
go ahead and we'll finish this interview

615
00:28:54,610 --> 00:28:51,980
later on but again you always have two

616
00:28:58,299 --> 00:28:54,620
people one of the things I recommend is

617
00:29:03,310 --> 00:28:58,309
also if you can do your interview in a

618
00:29:05,409 --> 00:29:03,320
public place I don't if you don't have

619
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:05,419
to go to somebody's house that might be

620
00:29:11,649 --> 00:29:07,850
the best way because it is the

621
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:11,659
surroundings are not familiar in a

622
00:29:17,019 --> 00:29:13,279
public place they're not familiar with

623
00:29:18,820 --> 00:29:17,029
that witness being in their home they

624
00:29:21,639 --> 00:29:18,830
know what's going on the home you do not

625
00:29:23,620 --> 00:29:21,649
so if you can go to a public place to do

626
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:23,630
your interview and get a nice quiet

627
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:26,330
corner that's what I would definitely

628
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:29,210
recommend and always always to people go

629
00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:32,000
to the interview if not more so let's

630
00:29:40,289 --> 00:29:35,360
just pretend everyone there's a call on

631
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:40,299
to your team of an alleged UFO landing

632
00:29:51,389 --> 00:29:44,090
what is the protocol for that anybody

633
00:29:59,019 --> 00:29:57,250
it's not okay my understanding

634
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:59,029
well basically yeah what that what that

635
00:30:02,169 --> 00:30:00,559
can you tell us a little bit about what

636
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:02,179
happens when you get any kind of a call

637
00:30:06,610 --> 00:30:04,130
whether it's a landing case or you know

638
00:30:11,549 --> 00:30:06,620
land I understand that there's a landing

639
00:30:16,149 --> 00:30:13,720
okay well the understanding have

640
00:30:21,789 --> 00:30:16,159
regarding that is that if there's a

641
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:21,799
landing exercise that has to be done

642
00:30:27,970 --> 00:30:25,250
that there would be a grid related to

643
00:30:29,799 --> 00:30:27,980
that landing exercise that has to

644
00:30:31,930 --> 00:30:29,809
involve strings and stakes for the grid

645
00:30:36,100 --> 00:30:31,940
marking evidence in the grid and taking

646
00:30:38,409 --> 00:30:36,110
pictures numbering the squares and and

647
00:30:40,659 --> 00:30:38,419
then at the end of that when that's done

648
00:30:42,310 --> 00:30:40,669
because that can be a lengthy process it

649
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:42,320
looks like a checker board with two feet

650
00:30:47,740 --> 00:30:45,440
squares two foot squares and then is

651
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:47,750
there any other contributions to that

652
00:30:54,399 --> 00:30:50,330
topic or anybody have anything to say to

653
00:31:00,279 --> 00:30:54,409
that okay I was I was just and I was

654
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:00,289
going to two other people because I'm

655
00:31:04,659 --> 00:31:02,330
sure they had plenty to say but it's

656
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:04,669
sort of a question that people have to

657
00:31:09,730 --> 00:31:06,730
think about initially I would suspect

658
00:31:11,049 --> 00:31:09,740
because there's no pattern stuff in our

659
00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:11,059
heads that are just gonna come to play

660
00:31:15,159 --> 00:31:12,710
and we say okay number one do this

661
00:31:17,740 --> 00:31:15,169
number two do that there is rule there

662
00:31:20,350 --> 00:31:17,750
are rules like that but basically you

663
00:31:21,639 --> 00:31:20,360
know as Marianne would know collecting

664
00:31:22,779 --> 00:31:21,649
evidence is gonna be important but you

665
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:22,789
what do you do with it how do you

666
00:31:27,610 --> 00:31:25,490
collect it if you do did you disturb the

667
00:31:30,669 --> 00:31:27,620
site obviously you don't want to do that

668
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:30,679
you know so you basically would walk

669
00:31:34,659 --> 00:31:32,510
around the site if you can identify it

670
00:31:36,159 --> 00:31:34,669
and visually making a visual

671
00:31:37,899 --> 00:31:36,169
identification of everything you see in

672
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:37,909
the site that looks like it's out of

673
00:31:43,450 --> 00:31:41,450
place it can be a branch on the ground

674
00:31:45,639 --> 00:31:43,460
that was moved and you can see where it

675
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:45,649
was resting from a depression but now it

676
00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:47,090
was moved something moved it well what

677
00:31:51,610 --> 00:31:48,529
moved it yeah maybe it was a coyote

678
00:31:53,230 --> 00:31:51,620
maybe it was a landing UFO that blew it

679
00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:53,240
out of the way are there Scout were

680
00:31:57,519 --> 00:31:55,039
March other things you can identify as

681
00:31:59,799 --> 00:31:57,529
different that might resemble a landing

682
00:32:01,120 --> 00:31:59,809
site what if there is some kind of

683
00:32:02,650 --> 00:32:01,130
material you don't recognize

684
00:32:04,300 --> 00:32:02,660
the ground does a glow under an

685
00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:04,310
ultraviolet light well you have to get

686
00:32:10,390 --> 00:32:06,710
near it to show to do that and there's

687
00:32:12,430 --> 00:32:10,400
procedures in place to do that and in

688
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:12,440
2014 we did a boot camp out in the

689
00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:15,410
Sonoran Desert we have 35 people from

690
00:32:19,210 --> 00:32:17,030
around the country and we had a crashed

691
00:32:21,550 --> 00:32:19,220
UFO with biological material we had a

692
00:32:23,980 --> 00:32:21,560
car that exhibited magnetic properties

693
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:23,990
and we had a landing site

694
00:32:29,470 --> 00:32:26,330
it had radioactive sampling that people

695
00:32:31,270 --> 00:32:29,480
had to do or know to do to test for that

696
00:32:33,580 --> 00:32:31,280
and and some of the teams found the

697
00:32:34,810 --> 00:32:33,590
radioactivity we did the same thing for

698
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:34,820
this boot camp - actually we had

699
00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:38,720
radioactive chips for people to find and

700
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:42,320
oh I think only one one group of people

701
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:44,930
that looked at this so we had one group

702
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:46,250
of people at this one particular site

703
00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:48,410
and we had radioactive material another

704
00:32:51,070 --> 00:32:49,910
site had radioactive material but our

705
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:51,080
group was the only one that found the

706
00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:54,530
radioactive material and - a radioactive

707
00:32:59,140 --> 00:32:56,480
I do not mean ionizing radiation that

708
00:33:01,150 --> 00:32:59,150
melts your skin off I mean you know the

709
00:33:02,980 --> 00:33:01,160
chips from inside smoke detectors that's

710
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:02,990
americium and it's very very low

711
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:04,910
radioactivity and you can detect it very

712
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:07,250
nicely with these commercially available

713
00:33:12,220 --> 00:33:10,490
detectors okay so and there's procedures

714
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:12,230
for collecting that stuff you know and

715
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:13,760
then there's a chain of custody that you

716
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:15,710
have to go through in order to to pass

717
00:33:21,970 --> 00:33:19,370
the material up the chain of command so

718
00:33:24,220 --> 00:33:21,980
to speak and everything has to be

719
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:24,230
document the documentation is of supreme

720
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:26,450
importance you can't have a plastic bag

721
00:33:30,610 --> 00:33:28,730
that just has something in it it has to

722
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:30,620
be labeled before you even put the thing

723
00:33:34,750 --> 00:33:32,570
in it what's this for what's it gonna be

724
00:33:37,270 --> 00:33:34,760
where'd you collect it photos have to be

725
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:37,280
taken I mean it goes on and on and you

726
00:33:43,060 --> 00:33:41,570
know so I'm trying to answer a general

727
00:33:45,810 --> 00:33:43,070
question about what do you do when

728
00:33:49,060 --> 00:33:45,820
there's a landing case but in general

729
00:33:52,060 --> 00:33:49,070
the real world what's gonna happen is if

730
00:33:53,470 --> 00:33:52,070
it's a true UFO the military's gonna get

731
00:34:00,160 --> 00:33:53,480
there before us and say okay guys go

732
00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:00,170
home you know regarding radiation yes my

733
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:02,870
understanding is that well actually I'll

734
00:34:07,950 --> 00:34:04,880
ask you but I have an answer to

735
00:34:14,419 --> 00:34:07,960
contribute to that okay yes there is

736
00:34:18,740 --> 00:34:14,429
real radiation detected or or suspected

737
00:34:21,649 --> 00:34:18,750
yeah even a glimmer of it what does the

738
00:34:23,419 --> 00:34:21,659
MUFON field investor keen a team do what

739
00:34:25,490 --> 00:34:23,429
is what is the proper procedure for that

740
00:34:28,579 --> 00:34:25,500
the proper procedures get the heck out

741
00:34:30,409 --> 00:34:28,589
of there okay and call the clear people

742
00:34:33,799 --> 00:34:30,419
or people in the chain of command that

743
00:34:36,169 --> 00:34:33,809
do that yeah you know there's a lot of

744
00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:36,179
people and MUFON that actually have very

745
00:34:41,690 --> 00:34:39,049
very high-end training in radioactivity

746
00:34:42,980 --> 00:34:41,700
and I think it's important to make sure

747
00:34:46,819 --> 00:34:42,990
that they're in the loop from the very

748
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:46,829
beginning and of course you know no I

749
00:34:49,369 --> 00:34:47,970
should just go traipsing in there and

750
00:34:51,409 --> 00:34:49,379
say well I'll just put on this tie back

751
00:34:55,190 --> 00:34:51,419
too and I'll be fine you know that's not

752
00:34:56,990 --> 00:34:55,200
true you know if there's a danger you

753
00:34:58,250 --> 00:34:57,000
get out of there you do not stay you

754
00:35:00,109 --> 00:34:58,260
don't say hey let's check for

755
00:35:02,059 --> 00:35:00,119
radioactivity don't worry if I die

756
00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:02,069
take the Geiger counter and run in

757
00:35:05,299 --> 00:35:04,079
yourself I know this isn't your mobile

758
00:35:07,789 --> 00:35:05,309
okay

759
00:35:11,930 --> 00:35:07,799
it's your life so nobody plays those

760
00:35:13,339 --> 00:35:11,940
games but they don't need to be a hero

761
00:35:14,930 --> 00:35:13,349
they need to get a hold of the proper

762
00:35:17,029 --> 00:35:14,940
authorities and leave the area the

763
00:35:18,890 --> 00:35:17,039
proper authorities would to be be to

764
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:18,900
call the fire department is my

765
00:35:23,710 --> 00:35:20,130
understanding when I checked on that

766
00:35:27,650 --> 00:35:23,720
champ this is Jim

767
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:27,660
yes what we have to remember here and

768
00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:32,730
move on is that we are not the authority

769
00:35:41,930 --> 00:35:36,569
you know having jurisdiction over all of

770
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:41,940
these these various events we have if we

771
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:44,010
if we encounter something that we think

772
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:45,119
is radioactive

773
00:35:50,180 --> 00:35:48,210
yes just like Mark said we have to the

774
00:35:52,549 --> 00:35:50,190
first thing is our own personal safety

775
00:35:54,710 --> 00:35:52,559
and those around us and then get a hold

776
00:35:58,819 --> 00:35:54,720
of the the proper authorities at that

777
00:36:02,150 --> 00:35:58,829
point if if a UFO actually crashed out

778
00:36:06,339 --> 00:36:02,160
in the dry lake bed or something

779
00:36:09,140 --> 00:36:06,349
as Mark mentioned yeah MUFON wants to

780
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:09,150
get involved and get as much information

781
00:36:16,250 --> 00:36:13,260
as we can document an archive that stuff

782
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:16,260
but as we all know the local authorities

783
00:36:20,359 --> 00:36:18,240
are going to be the first ones on on the

784
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:20,369
scene and we have to follow their

785
00:36:26,599 --> 00:36:23,520
instructions we don't want to get in the

786
00:36:27,450 --> 00:36:26,609
way of of you know the US military or

787
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:27,460
the

788
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:29,200
local police departments or fire

789
00:36:33,330 --> 00:36:30,850
departments no we don't want to we don't

790
00:36:35,610 --> 00:36:33,340
want to try to try to imagine that we're

791
00:36:37,830 --> 00:36:35,620
more important than they are although we

792
00:36:41,250 --> 00:36:37,840
are many of people within MUFON are

793
00:36:44,370 --> 00:36:41,260
trained and well qualified to do a lot

794
00:36:47,340 --> 00:36:44,380
of hands-on work but there again we you

795
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:47,350
know we have to work within the

796
00:36:54,210 --> 00:36:50,410
established system of authority wherever

797
00:36:55,980 --> 00:36:54,220
we live and now a few minutes ago when

798
00:36:57,540 --> 00:36:55,990
you asked the question about a landing

799
00:36:59,510 --> 00:36:57,550
or a crash or whatever there was a

800
00:37:02,160 --> 00:36:59,520
little bit of silence on this in because

801
00:37:04,650 --> 00:37:02,170
some of those questions require a little

802
00:37:10,020 --> 00:37:04,660
think work before we answer you with our

803
00:37:11,850 --> 00:37:10,030
procedures are our rather complex and

804
00:37:15,660 --> 00:37:11,860
vast and they've been they've been

805
00:37:19,290 --> 00:37:15,670
polished in over 50 years of of learning

806
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:19,300
how to do investigations and so many

807
00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:21,570
times even the field investigators even

808
00:37:29,070 --> 00:37:24,310
the veteran field investigators may have

809
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:29,080
to stop and reference the pros think the

810
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:30,610
protocol so go back and look at the

811
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:32,800
manual what am I supposed to do right

812
00:37:38,610 --> 00:37:35,410
now in case of this and and I think

813
00:37:40,470 --> 00:37:38,620
that's probably why I didn't jump in

814
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:40,480
right away and answer your question

815
00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:42,730
because I even you know even those of us

816
00:37:46,170 --> 00:37:44,710
that have been move on for years we

817
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:46,180
still have to stop and think about okay

818
00:37:51,810 --> 00:37:50,050
what step do I take next and we have we

819
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:51,820
have documentation and procedures and

820
00:37:56,610 --> 00:37:54,250
protocols that we follow so but so thank

821
00:38:00,060 --> 00:37:56,620
you Mark for stepping in and answering

822
00:38:01,710 --> 00:38:00,070
those questions and and so some of the

823
00:38:04,350 --> 00:38:01,720
stuff requires until think work when

824
00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:04,360
some of these questions you ask us so we

825
00:38:08,670 --> 00:38:06,400
still appreciate it you know thank you

826
00:38:10,410 --> 00:38:08,680
after you get a consent form for the

827
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:10,420
property owner to sign in order to

828
00:38:18,090 --> 00:38:13,690
actually enter the property and they

829
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:18,100
hand you photographs to look at mark who

830
00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:22,000
is a video and photo analyst who knows

831
00:38:26,340 --> 00:38:23,710
how to deal with the forensics regarding

832
00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:26,350
that what is going to ask you mark is if

833
00:38:32,340 --> 00:38:29,350
somebody hands you photos a witness does

834
00:38:35,780 --> 00:38:32,350
that they feel that they have been able

835
00:38:39,450 --> 00:38:35,790
to get from their alleged sighting or

836
00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:39,460
landing of something or whatever how do

837
00:38:43,010 --> 00:38:41,730
you analyze those and if you in my

838
00:38:44,540 --> 00:38:43,020
keeping your answer brief because I'd

839
00:38:45,650 --> 00:38:44,550
like to move on to John Dover and ask

840
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:45,660
him a few questions

841
00:38:50,030 --> 00:38:48,240
sure the bottom line is that we want to

842
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:50,040
get the originals and then I put it

843
00:38:55,460 --> 00:38:52,650
through a battery of applications that I

844
00:38:58,930 --> 00:38:55,470
use to validate the data to make sure

845
00:39:01,970 --> 00:38:58,940
it's not faked up and we move from there

846
00:39:03,590 --> 00:39:01,980
that's short okay thank you that was

847
00:39:06,290 --> 00:39:03,600
very short let me ask you another

848
00:39:06,890 --> 00:39:06,300
question what is exif data and why does

849
00:39:08,900 --> 00:39:06,900
that matter

850
00:39:12,410 --> 00:39:08,910
Shane hurt is talked about this at great

851
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:12,420
length on links on multiple shows that

852
00:39:17,630 --> 00:39:15,210
we've had how important exif data is and

853
00:39:20,210 --> 00:39:17,640
actually just having the opportunity to

854
00:39:22,220 --> 00:39:20,220
forensic ly analyze photos and video

855
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:22,230
instead of assuming that there's

856
00:39:25,550 --> 00:39:23,760
something on there there's a process to

857
00:39:27,650 --> 00:39:25,560
it I know that's part of your job with

858
00:39:30,650 --> 00:39:27,660
MUFON but what is exif data and why

859
00:39:32,930 --> 00:39:30,660
would anybody care about that well the

860
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:32,940
way the way that digital photos are

861
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:35,330
taken today every single digital

862
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:38,010
hardware that takes a photo and acquires

863
00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:42,090
an image stores additional data along

864
00:39:47,420 --> 00:39:44,160
with that image data such as when was it

865
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:47,430
taken what was the F ratio how fast

866
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:50,160
there was the exposure what kind of that

867
00:39:54,830 --> 00:39:52,560
Hardware took the picture where was it

868
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:54,840
taken in in some cases if you do it with

869
00:39:59,510 --> 00:39:57,330
an iPhone and probably Android you can

870
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:59,520
get your GPS coordinates of actually

871
00:40:04,460 --> 00:40:01,200
where the photo was actually taken for

872
00:40:06,770 --> 00:40:04,470
that moment it's it's important to have

873
00:40:10,250 --> 00:40:06,780
this kind of information so that you can

874
00:40:11,570 --> 00:40:10,260
correlate it against the testimony of

875
00:40:13,940 --> 00:40:11,580
the witness who says they took the

876
00:40:16,820 --> 00:40:13,950
picture I've had countless I can't tell

877
00:40:19,580 --> 00:40:16,830
you how many photos come in yes I took

878
00:40:21,140 --> 00:40:19,590
this outside on my deck I was looking at

879
00:40:23,450 --> 00:40:21,150
the spy and I saw this object moving

880
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:23,460
through the sky and the exit data shows

881
00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:24,930
that it was taken in the middle of the

882
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:26,910
woods somewhere else and had nothing to

883
00:40:31,070 --> 00:40:29,010
do with a house on a deck so he clearly

884
00:40:33,050 --> 00:40:31,080
know that they were trying to you know

885
00:40:35,330 --> 00:40:33,060
do something or they were remembering

886
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:35,340
wrong and I gives people a benefit the

887
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:37,410
dowel and I say well and I don't tell

888
00:40:41,870 --> 00:40:40,560
him where the exit data says they took

889
00:40:44,180 --> 00:40:41,880
the picture I just let them tell me

890
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:44,190
their story just like Mary Ann said you

891
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:45,810
let people tell you what happened and

892
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:47,850
then I make a judgement after that and

893
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:49,770
I'll follow up with questions once I've

894
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:52,650
come to a preliminary decision and my

895
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:54,510
decisions are by no means you know 100

896
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:55,330
percent solid

897
00:40:59,010 --> 00:40:57,610
see clearly because we don't really know

898
00:41:01,770 --> 00:40:59,020
everything that's going on out there

899
00:41:04,140 --> 00:41:01,780
they opened mine needs to be retained

900
00:41:06,210 --> 00:41:04,150
and yeah I think it's important to step

901
00:41:09,060 --> 00:41:06,220
in and mention that the folks should

902
00:41:11,130 --> 00:41:09,070
have if they've taken a photo I include

903
00:41:12,810 --> 00:41:11,140
it said the original photo because

904
00:41:15,330 --> 00:41:12,820
what's going to happen if they edit it

905
00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:15,340
if they crop it and save it that exif

906
00:41:21,450 --> 00:41:18,910
data as far as shutter speed f-stop used

907
00:41:24,510 --> 00:41:21,460
that type of thing is going to get wiped

908
00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:24,520
out when it gets received in some cases

909
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:26,110
it will in some cases it won't but

910
00:41:30,300 --> 00:41:28,210
you're right and the first thing I said

911
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:30,310
the answer the question was we need the

912
00:41:34,860 --> 00:41:33,280
original photo and usually people will

913
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:34,870
say what's this object up here in the

914
00:41:37,770 --> 00:41:35,890
left corner my photo

915
00:41:40,530 --> 00:41:37,780
let me just frame that crop it and send

916
00:41:42,570 --> 00:41:40,540
that and that's not even helpful because

917
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:42,580
that's that takes it out of the context

918
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:45,370
from which the photo was taken and we

919
00:41:48,810 --> 00:41:47,110
can't have that I can do that work I can

920
00:41:51,450 --> 00:41:48,820
zoom in I can do all the things you did

921
00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:51,460
and a lot more so I will do that for you

922
00:41:57,540 --> 00:41:54,160
and with you if you want that so that's

923
00:41:59,820 --> 00:41:57,550
important we have John Dover on with us

924
00:42:02,520 --> 00:41:59,830
and John also want to make sure that

925
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:02,530
your title is set accurately is it

926
00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:05,760
Navajo Nation's arranger is that correct

927
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:09,730
yeah that's correct and we mind sharing

928
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:13,930
a little bit of background okay I was a

929
00:42:20,430 --> 00:42:15,490
lieutenant with the Navajo Nation

930
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:20,440
Rangers we recognized federal officers I

931
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:22,960
have been to the federal law enforcement

932
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:26,050
training centers criminal investigation

933
00:42:34,890 --> 00:42:29,970
program that was a SWAT team commander

934
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:34,900
so Mountain Rescue instructor federal

935
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:39,090
firearms instructor as an EMT be

936
00:42:48,870 --> 00:42:43,330
emergency medical technician you know

937
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:48,880
just all kinds of varied stuff and I was

938
00:42:53,900 --> 00:42:50,770
a specialist in archaeological

939
00:42:59,490 --> 00:42:53,910
investigations which are by nature very

940
00:43:00,600 --> 00:42:59,500
forensic okay and you know I had the

941
00:43:05,310 --> 00:43:00,610
privilege of interviewing yourself

942
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:05,320
Stacey Wright Shane herd and a few other

943
00:43:10,780 --> 00:43:08,330
folks over at the Phoenix lights

944
00:43:13,870 --> 00:43:10,790
movie special that doctor linkit i held

945
00:43:15,340 --> 00:43:13,880
this year in phoenix and you were

946
00:43:17,590 --> 00:43:15,350
speaking about some really amazing

947
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:17,600
things and it was a really wonderful

948
00:43:20,650 --> 00:43:19,250
interview thank you for having done that

949
00:43:23,140 --> 00:43:20,660
interview with me what I was going to

950
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:23,150
ask you is what was the role that you

951
00:43:28,710 --> 00:43:26,210
held during the Phoenix MUFON boot camp

952
00:43:33,910 --> 00:43:28,720
what did you do while you were there

953
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:33,920
okay I was doing an introduction to the

954
00:43:40,270 --> 00:43:37,510
collection of evidence location

955
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:40,280
collection bagging tagging all that kind

956
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:44,210
of stuff and one of the things will

957
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:46,450
earlier I was going to chime in

958
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:48,850
everybody else answered it really well

959
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:51,200
one of the first things you do when you

960
00:43:58,810 --> 00:43:55,250
get to a scene is you assess for officer

961
00:44:00,850 --> 00:43:58,820
safety so you're going to look at not

962
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:00,860
only radiation but you're going to look

963
00:44:04,990 --> 00:44:03,170
at environmental factors you know are

964
00:44:09,340 --> 00:44:05,000
you going to watch it walk into a huge

965
00:44:11,650 --> 00:44:09,350
patch of cactus you know or you are

966
00:44:14,860 --> 00:44:11,660
there snakes in there you know they're

967
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:14,870
there's all kinds of actual dangers or

968
00:44:19,690 --> 00:44:18,050
even terrain dangers that can negate the

969
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:19,700
possibility of you getting in there

970
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:24,290
right away but for evidence

971
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:28,730
what we did is evidence is absolutely

972
00:44:35,530 --> 00:44:31,520
crucial in an investigation I have been

973
00:44:38,650 --> 00:44:35,540
a criminal investigator almost all of my

974
00:44:41,950 --> 00:44:38,660
career for 31 years and when you're

975
00:44:43,900 --> 00:44:41,960
investigating you look first at the

976
00:44:47,020 --> 00:44:43,910
evidence say there's a car accident

977
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:47,030
scene as a technical accident

978
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:49,130
investigator I would go to the scene I

979
00:44:54,370 --> 00:44:51,680
would look at the evidence on the scene

980
00:44:57,010 --> 00:44:54,380
do a walk through the skid marks and the

981
00:45:00,520 --> 00:44:57,020
crush damage and everything else any

982
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:00,530
vows that occurred in my mind I'm

983
00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:02,960
already doing mathematical calculations

984
00:45:10,210 --> 00:45:06,310
as to Vault formulas skid formulas

985
00:45:12,070 --> 00:45:10,220
coefficient of friction and then I would

986
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:12,080
go back and I would start interviewing

987
00:45:21,190 --> 00:45:17,210
witnesses and the evidence always speaks

988
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:21,200
for itself your your witness statements

989
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:21,690
should

990
00:45:28,190 --> 00:45:25,490
what you're seeing with the evidence and

991
00:45:31,940 --> 00:45:28,200
so when you go into a scene you don't

992
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:31,950
make a predisposition as far as what you

993
00:45:37,790 --> 00:45:34,890
think happened you look at the evidence

994
00:45:40,220 --> 00:45:37,800
first then you go on with the rest of

995
00:45:44,090 --> 00:45:40,230
the investigation thank you that was a

996
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:44,100
great summary of what you did at the

997
00:45:50,330 --> 00:45:46,170
boot camp I wanted to talk to you about

998
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:50,340
soil samples taking a control sample my

999
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:52,560
understanding is it's possible and okay

1000
00:45:58,280 --> 00:45:55,530
you tell me if it is okay or not for

1001
00:46:00,650 --> 00:45:58,290
someone if they have plastic pipes on

1002
00:46:03,350 --> 00:46:00,660
them with the cap to go ahead and just

1003
00:46:08,060 --> 00:46:03,360
hammer that plastic pipe into the soil

1004
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:08,070
and then cap it off same thing in an

1005
00:46:14,090 --> 00:46:12,090
alleged UFO landing area and then you

1006
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:14,100
mark where you did the soil sample is

1007
00:46:19,940 --> 00:46:15,690
that right where is there any other way

1008
00:46:21,980 --> 00:46:19,950
to do it well what's important with any

1009
00:46:26,990 --> 00:46:21,990
collection of evidence is that your

1010
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:27,000
tools have to be clean and in most cases

1011
00:46:33,860 --> 00:46:29,490
for forensic evidence you're talking

1012
00:46:36,740 --> 00:46:33,870
about sterile tools tweezers trowels

1013
00:46:39,050 --> 00:46:36,750
whatever you're going to use has to be

1014
00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:39,060
absolutely clean and pre bagged and

1015
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:41,520
sealed and you're going to break it out

1016
00:46:46,370 --> 00:46:42,960
there so you're not going to cross

1017
00:46:48,290 --> 00:46:46,380
contaminate anything like if you were in

1018
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:48,300
your own yard gardening and shoveling

1019
00:46:52,070 --> 00:46:50,850
manure with your trowel and then you

1020
00:46:54,350 --> 00:46:52,080
took it along with you on an

1021
00:46:57,020 --> 00:46:54,360
investigation and took soil samples with

1022
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:57,030
it you're transferring that that

1023
00:47:02,350 --> 00:47:00,240
material to your sample so you want to

1024
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:02,360
be very careful about that any

1025
00:47:10,370 --> 00:47:05,330
containers that you're using should be

1026
00:47:12,860 --> 00:47:10,380
again sterile field clean you you don't

1027
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:12,870
want to use a mason jar that you that

1028
00:47:18,980 --> 00:47:15,930
you know you had your homemade marmalade

1029
00:47:21,290 --> 00:47:18,990
in and take it with you and then dump

1030
00:47:23,660 --> 00:47:21,300
soil in there the storing of content

1031
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:23,670
again yeah it would contaminate the

1032
00:47:28,700 --> 00:47:26,370
evidence so where so let's just say

1033
00:47:32,660 --> 00:47:28,710
we're on site and we have our clean

1034
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:32,670
tools and clean containers and then you

1035
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:35,520
go ahead and take the sample correctly

1036
00:47:40,970 --> 00:47:36,960
where do we store them out while we're

1037
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:40,980
on her way to wherever okay as soon as

1038
00:47:46,330 --> 00:47:43,290
you'd picked up the sample and you've

1039
00:47:49,030 --> 00:47:46,340
you've bagged it you want to tag it and

1040
00:47:52,070 --> 00:47:49,040
by tagging it you're going to put

1041
00:47:55,550 --> 00:47:52,080
something on it usually in indelible

1042
00:47:57,380 --> 00:47:55,560
marker with your initials to say not

1043
00:47:59,840 --> 00:47:57,390
only say this is the date and time I

1044
00:48:02,720 --> 00:47:59,850
picked it up this is who picked it up

1045
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:02,730
because all of that evidence you could

1046
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:05,040
have several hundred pieces of evidence

1047
00:48:10,550 --> 00:48:08,490
in a case and you have to track those

1048
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:10,560
you have to keep a log of everything

1049
00:48:18,290 --> 00:48:13,290
that you've picked up and it all has to

1050
00:48:20,590 --> 00:48:18,300
be documented so very very important you

1051
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:20,600
almost get to be like an accountant

1052
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:25,040
keeping track of things okay and then if

1053
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:30,720
if we have to put this stuff into you

1054
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:33,330
know a vehicle and go somewhere are

1055
00:48:36,410 --> 00:48:35,370
there are there situations at times

1056
00:48:39,860 --> 00:48:36,420
where we have to put them in

1057
00:48:41,660 --> 00:48:39,870
refrigerated areas or you know is it

1058
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:41,670
okay to just throw them in the back of

1059
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:43,290
the vehicle how would we store them on

1060
00:48:54,550 --> 00:48:45,570
our way back to headquarters so to speak

1061
00:48:57,650 --> 00:48:54,560
oh sure there's a whole biological

1062
00:49:03,170 --> 00:48:57,660
material may need to be put on ice or

1063
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:03,180
frozen with dry ice it could be that if

1064
00:49:09,530 --> 00:49:05,850
you put biological material in plastic

1065
00:49:11,150 --> 00:49:09,540
it'll start to deteriorate so you don't

1066
00:49:16,190 --> 00:49:11,160
want to do that if you want to use paper

1067
00:49:19,310 --> 00:49:16,200
bags so there's there's a whole separate

1068
00:49:21,590 --> 00:49:19,320
subgroup of study involved in how to

1069
00:49:24,910 --> 00:49:21,600
collect and properly bag the evidence

1070
00:49:28,910 --> 00:49:24,920
and you know all we're doing is giving

1071
00:49:32,810 --> 00:49:28,920
giving everybody the basics of how to do

1072
00:49:35,350 --> 00:49:32,820
this and some practical experience and

1073
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:35,360
then it's going to take many many cases

1074
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:39,090
to to get the experience necessary to

1075
00:49:45,620 --> 00:49:42,960
continue on with this okay and then

1076
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:45,630
taking pictures of the area if anyone

1077
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:47,280
anyone at all wants to try them in on

1078
00:49:51,950 --> 00:49:49,110
this please do it just remember to say

1079
00:49:56,420 --> 00:49:51,960
who you are my understanding is it's

1080
00:49:58,880 --> 00:49:56,430
okay for folks in MUFON to use multiple

1081
00:50:00,950 --> 00:49:58,890
cameras and so let's just pretend they

1082
00:50:02,450 --> 00:50:00,960
have they have their iPhone but they

1083
00:50:05,330 --> 00:50:02,460
also happen to have a really great

1084
00:50:07,070 --> 00:50:05,340
camera other than their iPhone if they

1085
00:50:09,590 --> 00:50:07,080
wanted to take pictures from both

1086
00:50:19,070 --> 00:50:09,600
devices just for the heck of it they

1087
00:50:24,020 --> 00:50:19,080
could is that right yeah okay go ahead I

1088
00:50:26,650 --> 00:50:24,030
was just gonna say yeah it is it is

1089
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:26,660
possible and practical to do it that way

1090
00:50:32,860 --> 00:50:29,520
again you're gonna have to have a photo

1091
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:32,870
log of each picture where it was taken

1092
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:37,410
which direction it was taken and there

1093
00:50:47,330 --> 00:50:41,570
is a difference between digital and

1094
00:50:50,540 --> 00:50:47,340
analog pictures digital when you blow it

1095
00:50:53,150 --> 00:50:50,550
up tends to pixelate a la 35-millimeter

1096
00:50:58,250 --> 00:50:53,160
on the other hand gives you a very clean

1097
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:58,260
picture that can be blown up Polaroid

1098
00:51:03,140 --> 00:51:00,960
photography is actually excellent

1099
00:51:06,130 --> 00:51:03,150
because there's no way you could really

1100
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:06,140
manipulate anything within the picture

1101
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:09,450
so there there's a whole lot of things

1102
00:51:17,330 --> 00:51:13,410
in our arsenal and we should use as much

1103
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:17,340
of our arsenal as we can you know just

1104
00:51:23,230 --> 00:51:20,400
jump in here real quick and a little

1105
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:23,240
little anecdote I used to work in the

1106
00:51:29,300 --> 00:51:26,130
camera company that manufactured cameras

1107
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:29,310
and we had quite a few a police

1108
00:51:33,380 --> 00:51:31,050
department says customers with different

1109
00:51:36,050 --> 00:51:33,390
questions about this and that and I

1110
00:51:37,610 --> 00:51:36,060
always noticed that the the patrolmen

1111
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:37,620
they generally got the point-and-shoot

1112
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:39,810
cameras and the detectives generally got

1113
00:51:44,390 --> 00:51:42,690
the better DSLR cameras so I'll just

1114
00:51:46,990 --> 00:51:44,400
leave it at that and that continued on

1115
00:51:49,550 --> 00:51:47,000
channel just wanted to share that little

1116
00:51:53,390 --> 00:51:49,560
thank you so much and was that Russell

1117
00:51:55,220 --> 00:51:53,400
speaking who were the person who's going

1118
00:51:57,020 --> 00:51:55,230
to interject it was that mark or Russell

1119
00:52:02,170 --> 00:51:57,030
who was that

1120
00:52:07,559 --> 00:52:04,690
hi I just wanted to interject some on

1121
00:52:10,539 --> 00:52:07,569
the photography I'm trained in forensic

1122
00:52:12,819 --> 00:52:10,549
photography and so there's if you're

1123
00:52:14,710 --> 00:52:12,829
going to be doing a lot of photography

1124
00:52:18,510 --> 00:52:14,720
or if you really want to do it correctly

1125
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:18,520
you should study forensic photography

1126
00:52:27,279 --> 00:52:24,250
for instance say there's a footprint or

1127
00:52:29,470 --> 00:52:27,289
an impression from you know a landing

1128
00:52:34,589 --> 00:52:29,480
pod or something you want to put a ruler

1129
00:52:36,609 --> 00:52:34,599
there you can see the size of it you

1130
00:52:39,370 --> 00:52:36,619
might photograph it from different

1131
00:52:42,569 --> 00:52:39,380
angles so that you get more detail in

1132
00:52:49,690 --> 00:52:42,579
the photo you mark where everything is

1133
00:52:52,329 --> 00:52:49,700
but it's whole science unto it so one

1134
00:52:55,839 --> 00:52:52,339
thing earlier you know you're talking

1135
00:52:58,839 --> 00:52:55,849
about like a landing first thing you do

1136
00:53:01,599 --> 00:52:58,849
is check for radiation Lanny's often

1137
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:01,609
have radiation associated with them so

1138
00:53:06,819 --> 00:53:04,970
there every investigator really should

1139
00:53:11,430 --> 00:53:06,829
you know when they can afford to get a

1140
00:53:14,049 --> 00:53:11,440
radiation detector radiation meter

1141
00:53:18,430 --> 00:53:14,059
that's great thank you so much for that

1142
00:53:21,970 --> 00:53:18,440
input and Mark Dantonio was going to ask

1143
00:53:24,730 --> 00:53:21,980
you does it sound okay by you if a field

1144
00:53:27,940 --> 00:53:24,740
investigator told you they're at a site

1145
00:53:30,519 --> 00:53:27,950
and they have their iPhone and they also

1146
00:53:32,589 --> 00:53:30,529
have another kind of camera a camera

1147
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:32,599
that sounds acceptable to you and that

1148
00:53:37,180 --> 00:53:34,250
investigator wants to take pictures with

1149
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:37,190
both kinds of devices is that does that

1150
00:53:43,839 --> 00:53:40,490
sound okay to you absolutely enough for

1151
00:53:45,970 --> 00:53:43,849
me and and but here's the issue each

1152
00:53:48,220 --> 00:53:45,980
camera has its own quirks its own

1153
00:53:50,740 --> 00:53:48,230
nuances each camera detects color

1154
00:53:53,260 --> 00:53:50,750
differently the sensors will pick up

1155
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:53,270
different levels of information in the

1156
00:53:58,329 --> 00:53:56,210
spectrum some cameras are you know

1157
00:53:59,589 --> 00:53:58,339
better at taking kind of the red end of

1158
00:54:01,930 --> 00:53:59,599
the spectrum you know we have red orange

1159
00:54:04,299 --> 00:54:01,940
yellow green blue indigo and violet in

1160
00:54:05,799 --> 00:54:04,309
our spectrum some cameras lean toward

1161
00:54:08,799 --> 00:54:05,809
the red some cameras lean toward the

1162
00:54:10,599 --> 00:54:08,809
green some go toward the blue and so if

1163
00:54:12,519 --> 00:54:10,609
someone's gonna use a different camera I

1164
00:54:14,740 --> 00:54:12,529
just need to know all the specifics of

1165
00:54:16,059 --> 00:54:14,750
each camera and I can look that up

1166
00:54:17,559 --> 00:54:16,069
I don't need you know then

1167
00:54:19,689 --> 00:54:17,569
to do that for me that's something I can

1168
00:54:21,939 --> 00:54:19,699
do getting the information they should

1169
00:54:24,279 --> 00:54:21,949
not be thwarted because they're thinking

1170
00:54:26,979 --> 00:54:24,289
gee can I use this camera to take this

1171
00:54:28,930 --> 00:54:26,989
picture and then miss the picture okay

1172
00:54:30,279 --> 00:54:28,940
take all the pictures you want but then

1173
00:54:33,699 --> 00:54:30,289
get me the information and if the

1174
00:54:36,009 --> 00:54:33,709
information of the video is you know a

1175
00:54:37,539 --> 00:54:36,019
poor quality or it's shaken around I can

1176
00:54:39,939 --> 00:54:37,549
stabilize that I can make it look like

1177
00:54:41,410 --> 00:54:39,949
it's rock-solid in the view and make it

1178
00:54:42,670 --> 00:54:41,420
like you never were shaking around

1179
00:54:43,289 --> 00:54:42,680
because you were so scared out of your

1180
00:54:46,509 --> 00:54:43,299
mind

1181
00:54:47,969 --> 00:54:46,519
okay and Shane I was gonna ask you do

1182
00:54:52,749 --> 00:54:47,979
you bring a laptop

1183
00:54:55,539 --> 00:54:52,759
to an investigation and also let's let's

1184
00:54:57,969 --> 00:54:55,549
just go back to a landing site idea do

1185
00:54:59,380 --> 00:54:57,979
you set up a command center a center you

1186
00:55:03,189 --> 00:54:59,390
know where there's all kinds of tools

1187
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:03,199
like laptops and forensic tools and then

1188
00:55:09,849 --> 00:55:05,690
clean containers like what does that

1189
00:55:11,489 --> 00:55:09,859
area look like when you have your teen

1190
00:55:14,140 --> 00:55:11,499
there setting it up what would you have

1191
00:55:16,479 --> 00:55:14,150
yeah you do set up a staging area for

1192
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:16,489
your materials and stuff you know a

1193
00:55:21,279 --> 00:55:18,410
sufficient amount of distance away from

1194
00:55:23,529 --> 00:55:21,289
the actual site itself so that it's safe

1195
00:55:27,099 --> 00:55:23,539
and you have working you know room to

1196
00:55:29,079 --> 00:55:27,109
work and that sort of thing but yeah you

1197
00:55:32,049 --> 00:55:29,089
can stay Josef materials again as we

1198
00:55:32,499 --> 00:55:32,059
talked about some are sterile have to be

1199
00:55:34,420 --> 00:55:32,509
handled

1200
00:55:36,819 --> 00:55:34,430
you know correctly I've gloves that you

1201
00:55:39,309 --> 00:55:36,829
have to have and switch out and a lot of

1202
00:55:41,979 --> 00:55:39,319
a lot of things like that logistically

1203
00:55:44,469 --> 00:55:41,989
so that's that's a good way to set it up

1204
00:55:47,469 --> 00:55:44,479
and have a little Basecamp a staging

1205
00:55:49,449 --> 00:55:47,479
area and you know a gap a room between

1206
00:55:51,279 --> 00:55:49,459
the actual site so you can properly

1207
00:55:53,979 --> 00:55:51,289
process that site as well

1208
00:55:57,309 --> 00:55:53,989
great the other thing that we still need

1209
00:55:59,650 --> 00:55:57,319
to cover is let's say you have dotted

1210
00:56:00,789 --> 00:55:59,660
all your eyes and you have everything

1211
00:56:03,819 --> 00:56:00,799
done perfectly

1212
00:56:06,749 --> 00:56:03,829
you have your soil samples all the

1213
00:56:09,999 --> 00:56:06,759
proper forms have been filled out and

1214
00:56:13,779 --> 00:56:10,009
then you need to send those soil samples

1215
00:56:16,420 --> 00:56:13,789
and any other kind of say biological

1216
00:56:19,209 --> 00:56:16,430
samples or fill in the blank samples

1217
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:19,219
where do you send them to and what is

1218
00:56:26,130 --> 00:56:22,930
the first thing you do regarding that

1219
00:56:39,479 --> 00:56:34,979
well I could throw this in I think

1220
00:56:41,609 --> 00:56:39,489
that's right yeah yeah this was first

1221
00:56:44,900 --> 00:56:41,619
thing I do on something like that I

1222
00:56:48,599 --> 00:56:44,910
would contact the chief investigator I

1223
00:56:50,489 --> 00:56:48,609
get them involved and have them with it

1224
00:56:56,670 --> 00:56:50,499
the entire investigation on something

1225
00:56:59,489 --> 00:56:56,680
that important and with that I would let

1226
00:57:02,970 --> 00:56:59,499
them determine where it goes up the

1227
00:57:04,890 --> 00:57:02,980
chain okay and you know I go ahead

1228
00:57:07,220 --> 00:57:04,900
please whoever that is please interrupt

1229
00:57:12,059 --> 00:57:07,230
hi mark go ahead just we do have a

1230
00:57:16,589 --> 00:57:12,069
materials scientist on on the staff and

1231
00:57:19,529 --> 00:57:16,599
her name is Phyllis and she can take

1232
00:57:21,630 --> 00:57:19,539
samples and I think that we don't we

1233
00:57:23,489 --> 00:57:21,640
wouldn't send them directly to her as a

1234
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:23,499
field investigator for instance you

1235
00:57:26,819 --> 00:57:24,970
would contact us Russell just said

1236
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:26,829
you're chief investigator he would

1237
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:29,890
coordinate the back and forth with the

1238
00:57:34,079 --> 00:57:31,839
material scientists and the materials

1239
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:34,089
lab and then they can test to see what's

1240
00:57:37,319 --> 00:57:35,650
going on with these materials and

1241
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:37,329
determine whether it's something of

1242
00:57:44,279 --> 00:57:42,130
earthly or otherworldly origin yeah I

1243
00:57:46,859 --> 00:57:44,289
actually contacted MUFON on this

1244
00:57:50,190 --> 00:57:46,869
question and they said to absolutely

1245
00:57:53,009 --> 00:57:50,200
follow a chain of command to to call the

1246
00:57:54,749 --> 00:57:53,019
deal by perhaps maybe that's not the

1247
00:57:58,319 --> 00:57:54,759
right terminology I might not be using

1248
00:58:01,470 --> 00:57:58,329
it part of the that that acronym

1249
00:58:03,239 --> 00:58:01,480
correctly but called the do DOI they

1250
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:03,249
said and then they evaluate whether or

1251
00:58:07,710 --> 00:58:05,170
not these are valuable samples or not

1252
00:58:09,749 --> 00:58:07,720
and then the DOI or MCI will give more

1253
00:58:13,109 --> 00:58:09,759
information from there does that sound

1254
00:58:15,779 --> 00:58:13,119
right to you guys yes this is Stacey and

1255
00:58:17,789 --> 00:58:15,789
I actually spoke with the MUFON chief

1256
00:58:19,319 --> 00:58:17,799
investigator about this as well because

1257
00:58:20,460 --> 00:58:19,329
I just wasn't really clear on it I

1258
00:58:23,039 --> 00:58:20,470
wanted to make sure that we had our

1259
00:58:25,499 --> 00:58:23,049
ducks in a row if whatever happened so

1260
00:58:27,150 --> 00:58:25,509
what he told me is that when taking any

1261
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:27,160
samples it's recommended that the field

1262
00:58:31,559 --> 00:58:29,170
investigator gather three sets if

1263
00:58:33,329 --> 00:58:31,569
possible and then all the samples

1264
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:33,339
secured and they're sealed sample

1265
00:58:38,579 --> 00:58:36,130
containers and to make sure the chain of

1266
00:58:39,089 --> 00:58:38,589
custody documents were created and

1267
00:58:42,660 --> 00:58:39,099
maintained

1268
00:58:44,609 --> 00:58:42,670
at each handoff of those samples then

1269
00:58:47,969 --> 00:58:44,619
one set of samples is always sent to a

1270
00:58:49,979 --> 00:58:47,979
certain person in Missouri and she would

1271
00:58:52,859 --> 00:58:49,989
be contacted for specifics before we

1272
00:58:54,539 --> 00:58:52,869
send the samples a second set of samples

1273
00:58:57,029 --> 00:58:54,549
would be kept by the state director for

1274
00:58:58,890 --> 00:58:57,039
safekeeping and if a third set was

1275
00:59:02,130 --> 00:58:58,900
possible it should be kept by the lead

1276
00:59:03,989 --> 00:59:02,140
fi the field investigator so these extra

1277
00:59:05,549 --> 00:59:03,999
two sets of samples are to be held in

1278
00:59:09,029 --> 00:59:05,559
case anything should happen the first

1279
00:59:10,949 --> 00:59:09,039
set sent to the lab in Missouri and then

1280
00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:10,959
he said also if it becomes necessary or

1281
00:59:15,689 --> 00:59:12,880
just desirable to have a second lab

1282
00:59:18,749 --> 00:59:15,699
examine the samples the set held by the

1283
00:59:21,329 --> 00:59:18,759
field investigator should be sent if the

1284
00:59:23,999 --> 00:59:21,339
third set is not needed once the case is

1285
00:59:26,819 --> 00:59:24,009
completed the third set is forwarded to

1286
00:59:28,859 --> 00:59:26,829
MUFON headquarters so they want to just

1287
00:59:32,219 --> 00:59:28,869
make sure that the chain of custody is

1288
00:59:36,660 --> 00:59:32,229
maintained in all cases here we're going

1289
00:59:38,130 --> 00:59:36,670
to move on to a very serious part not

1290
00:59:40,140 --> 00:59:38,140
that this whole thing hasn't been very

1291
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:40,150
serious but this might this part is even

1292
00:59:45,449 --> 00:59:42,880
more serious regarding the boot camp and

1293
00:59:49,439 --> 00:59:45,459
that is talking about folks who have

1294
00:59:52,859 --> 00:59:49,449
been traumatized by experiences they

1295
00:59:56,579 --> 00:59:52,869
believe have to do with et related

1296
00:59:59,249 --> 00:59:56,589
contact when you have a witness you're

1297
01:00:04,739 --> 00:59:59,259
talking to who feels that they have been

1298
01:00:06,930 --> 01:00:04,749
deeply traumatized what do you do anyone

1299
01:00:11,569 --> 01:00:06,940
and be sure to please say your name when

1300
01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:11,579
you're introducing the topic okay Jim

1301
01:00:17,969 --> 01:00:15,609
you're talking about cases and that

1302
01:00:20,189 --> 01:00:17,979
would be of course referred to the

1303
01:00:23,689 --> 01:00:20,199
experience or research team at this

1304
01:00:28,079 --> 01:00:23,699
point which is the ERT I here in Arizona

1305
01:00:33,959 --> 01:00:28,089
Gwen is on that team and so maybe Gwen

1306
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:33,969
can answer some of that okay hi yeah I'm

1307
01:00:41,309 --> 01:00:37,690
glad to speak to that a little bit the

1308
01:00:42,809 --> 01:00:41,319
field investigator is sometimes the

1309
01:00:45,749 --> 01:00:42,819
first individual who comes in contact

1310
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:45,759
with that person it depends on how an

1311
01:00:50,990 --> 01:00:49,170
individual comes to MUFON if they have a

1312
01:00:54,079 --> 01:00:51,000
writing that they would like to report

1313
01:00:56,030 --> 01:00:54,089
they can go through the CMS and they can

1314
01:00:58,309 --> 01:00:56,040
request to have a field investigator

1315
01:01:01,670 --> 01:00:58,319
assigned for their sighting to be

1316
01:01:05,089 --> 01:01:01,680
investigated or they have an option they

1317
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:05,099
can also go in through another way if

1318
01:01:09,799 --> 01:01:07,530
they don't have a specific sighting but

1319
01:01:13,010 --> 01:01:09,809
they believe they have had a contact

1320
01:01:15,140 --> 01:01:13,020
experience of some kind then they can

1321
01:01:17,660 --> 01:01:15,150
make contact with the experiencer

1322
01:01:21,620 --> 01:01:17,670
research team and they will come through

1323
01:01:24,559 --> 01:01:21,630
to the team that I work with and we do

1324
01:01:27,559 --> 01:01:24,569
not do investigations in the same way

1325
01:01:30,470 --> 01:01:27,569
that the field investigators do the

1326
01:01:34,039 --> 01:01:30,480
purpose of the ERT or the experience or

1327
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:34,049
research team is to give support to

1328
01:01:39,740 --> 01:01:37,650
these individuals I'm sure as you can

1329
01:01:42,530 --> 01:01:39,750
imagine people who have these

1330
01:01:45,230 --> 01:01:42,540
experiences experiences often don't have

1331
01:01:47,359 --> 01:01:45,240
anybody else to talk to and so there

1332
01:01:49,309 --> 01:01:47,369
there really need help and guidance and

1333
01:01:52,010 --> 01:01:49,319
you know what to do with what's happened

1334
01:01:53,930 --> 01:01:52,020
to them many of the members of the

1335
01:01:56,870 --> 01:01:53,940
experience or research team have had

1336
01:01:58,849 --> 01:01:56,880
training in this particular area I am an

1337
01:02:00,740 --> 01:01:58,859
experienced her therapist - certified

1338
01:02:02,599 --> 01:02:00,750
hypnotherapist and I've been working

1339
01:02:05,299 --> 01:02:02,609
face-to-face and in groups with

1340
01:02:09,349 --> 01:02:05,309
experiencers for about 12 years doing

1341
01:02:12,099 --> 01:02:09,359
this work so I do that kind of work with

1342
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:12,109
the experience - research team as well

1343
01:02:17,450 --> 01:02:15,450
we are when someone comes in to us then

1344
01:02:20,089 --> 01:02:17,460
they are assigned to one of the members

1345
01:02:22,490 --> 01:02:20,099
of the team we contact that person and

1346
01:02:25,190 --> 01:02:22,500
we spot we talk with them we listen to

1347
01:02:28,809 --> 01:02:25,200
them we are there to give them support

1348
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:28,819
and to give them information if we can

1349
01:02:39,770 --> 01:02:35,690
MUFON maintains a list of individuals

1350
01:02:41,990 --> 01:02:39,780
therapists and groups that have gone

1351
01:02:45,410 --> 01:02:42,000
through MUFON they have been vetted they

1352
01:02:48,620 --> 01:02:45,420
have been approved by MUFON and we are

1353
01:02:51,710 --> 01:02:48,630
able to take individuals from that list

1354
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:51,720
and refer them to these experiences who

1355
01:02:59,059 --> 01:02:54,690
experiencers who are contacting us so if

1356
01:03:01,430 --> 01:02:59,069
someone contacts us from Arkansas and I

1357
01:03:03,079 --> 01:03:01,440
speak with them then I can go to muffins

1358
01:03:04,969 --> 01:03:03,089
list and I can look

1359
01:03:08,239 --> 01:03:04,979
see if there's any a group or an

1360
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:08,249
experience or therapist in their area of

1361
01:03:12,650 --> 01:03:10,170
Arkansas and I can give them that

1362
01:03:15,579 --> 01:03:12,660
information so then if they want to they

1363
01:03:20,079 --> 01:03:15,589
can make connection with those with that

1364
01:03:23,599 --> 01:03:20,089
so what we do is listen we support and

1365
01:03:26,630 --> 01:03:23,609
then we help to try to sort of hook them

1366
01:03:29,359 --> 01:03:26,640
up with with groups or therapists in

1367
01:03:31,519 --> 01:03:29,369
their area of the country where they can

1368
01:03:35,209 --> 01:03:31,529
get the help face-to-face help that they

1369
01:03:39,170 --> 01:03:35,219
really need thank you very much for that

1370
01:03:43,219 --> 01:03:39,180
I wanted to ask Sharon Jackson the

1371
01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:43,229
cydonia MUFON director when you have an

1372
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:45,089
individual who comes to you where you're

1373
01:03:52,549 --> 01:03:49,440
at in Sedona who do you assign to that

1374
01:03:56,779 --> 01:03:52,559
witness who feels that they have had a

1375
01:04:01,130 --> 01:03:56,789
traumatic situation occur to them well

1376
01:04:03,529 --> 01:04:01,140
first of all I listen and that is so

1377
01:04:06,529 --> 01:04:03,539
important because frequently these

1378
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:06,539
people have had no one to share their

1379
01:04:13,029 --> 01:04:09,690
story with and no one who believes them

1380
01:04:16,690 --> 01:04:13,039
so it is so important just to listen and

1381
01:04:21,469 --> 01:04:16,700
then after I listen I can suggest that

1382
01:04:25,279 --> 01:04:21,479
they get in contact with when there is a

1383
01:04:28,279 --> 01:04:25,289
channel through CMS for them to get in

1384
01:04:34,089 --> 01:04:28,289
in contact with a experienced or

1385
01:04:38,959 --> 01:04:34,099
research team so I okay psychiatric

1386
01:04:43,209 --> 01:04:38,969
experience mm-hmm as a nurse and and I

1387
01:04:45,709 --> 01:04:43,219
do know that listening is just the key

1388
01:04:48,589 --> 01:04:45,719
that's wonderful thank you very much for

1389
01:04:51,109 --> 01:04:48,599
contributing to that topic John Dover

1390
01:04:53,779 --> 01:04:51,119
wanted to ask you you've been involved

1391
01:04:56,599 --> 01:04:53,789
in investigations of all kinds of for

1392
01:04:58,910 --> 01:04:56,609
decades now when you had a witness of

1393
01:05:01,789 --> 01:04:58,920
any kind regarding any kind of case and

1394
01:05:06,259 --> 01:05:01,799
they were severely traumatized what did

1395
01:05:09,079 --> 01:05:06,269
you do well in the case of a severely

1396
01:05:12,140 --> 01:05:09,089
traumatized witness we would try to get

1397
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:12,150
them some kind of help whether it was

1398
01:05:20,059 --> 01:05:15,690
through a local hospital

1399
01:05:23,299 --> 01:05:20,069
you know however that happens in the

1400
01:05:26,630 --> 01:05:23,309
case of MUFON they have the ERT team

1401
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:26,640
that we would refer to refer them to but

1402
01:05:35,089 --> 01:05:30,890
a lot of times it's just like they said

1403
01:05:37,459 --> 01:05:35,099
and most people are told from a law

1404
01:05:40,009 --> 01:05:37,469
enforcement standpoint oh we don't do

1405
01:05:43,489 --> 01:05:40,019
that you know or or they look at you

1406
01:05:46,700 --> 01:05:43,499
like you're crazy and I think my

1407
01:05:50,289 --> 01:05:46,710
department was probably the only one to

1408
01:05:53,180 --> 01:05:50,299
start with in the nation that actually

1409
01:05:55,370 --> 01:05:53,190
told its officers you will investigate

1410
01:05:57,950 --> 01:05:55,380
these cases you will treat them

1411
01:06:03,640 --> 01:05:57,960
professionally and you will write the

1412
01:06:06,979 --> 01:06:03,650
reports on them and submit them and so

1413
01:06:09,109 --> 01:06:06,989
there there are always very difficult

1414
01:06:13,009 --> 01:06:09,119
cases but I've had people talking to me

1415
01:06:15,289 --> 01:06:13,019
that have broken down in tears and and

1416
01:06:18,469 --> 01:06:15,299
told me that nobody else would listen to

1417
01:06:21,140 --> 01:06:18,479
them and just listening to them really

1418
01:06:24,140 --> 01:06:21,150
really helps have there ever been any

1419
01:06:29,779 --> 01:06:24,150
cases this question is to everyone on

1420
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:29,789
the panel that have appeared to not be

1421
01:06:38,239 --> 01:06:34,170
real authentic but then you change your

1422
01:06:40,609 --> 01:06:38,249
mind and you realize that the case that

1423
01:06:44,059 --> 01:06:40,619
you were helping to work on with this

1424
01:06:46,660 --> 01:06:44,069
witness turned out to have some very

1425
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:46,670
authentic angles to it

1426
01:06:56,269 --> 01:06:53,599
anyone well this is Mark I'll just say

1427
01:06:59,029 --> 01:06:56,279
usually it's the opposite direction for

1428
01:07:01,370 --> 01:06:59,039
me I went to every case thinking okay is

1429
01:07:02,839 --> 01:07:01,380
this this possibly a real thing and then

1430
01:07:06,229 --> 01:07:02,849
finding out at the end of the day that

1431
01:07:19,430 --> 01:07:06,239
it's not I've never seen it from the

1432
01:07:21,289 --> 01:07:19,440
opposite side personally like that okay

1433
01:07:23,329 --> 01:07:21,299
great thank you and the other person who

1434
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:23,339
was wanting to speak go ahead please do

1435
01:07:36,349 --> 01:07:33,290
okay I wanted to ask everybody about the

1436
01:07:38,630 --> 01:07:36,359
cases they have had can anybody please

1437
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:38,640
talk about a case that they feel is okay

1438
01:07:44,980 --> 01:07:41,850
to talk about as an example regarding an

1439
01:07:53,990 --> 01:07:44,990
authentic case they think they have had

1440
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:54,000
the opportunity to investigate this is

1441
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:57,050
Shane I've got one okay Shane thank you

1442
01:08:05,390 --> 01:08:00,000
this was a case actually that ended up

1443
01:08:08,060 --> 01:08:05,400
in the 2017 UFO case book for MUFON it

1444
01:08:10,190 --> 01:08:08,070
was case in the Grand Canyon and a

1445
01:08:14,060 --> 01:08:10,200
couple were hiking in the bottom of the

1446
01:08:16,970 --> 01:08:14,070
canyon one night and it was course

1447
01:08:20,450 --> 01:08:16,980
extremely remote in that area and they

1448
01:08:24,650 --> 01:08:20,460
saw two objects that flew from above the

1449
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:24,660
canyon walls down below the canyon walls

1450
01:08:31,630 --> 01:08:27,650
making no noise strange lights

1451
01:08:34,789 --> 01:08:31,640
performance that was highly unusual and

1452
01:08:37,789 --> 01:08:34,799
through throughout investigation

1453
01:08:40,130 --> 01:08:37,799
determined you know drones are illegal

1454
01:08:43,729 --> 01:08:40,140
in the area and they're watched for

1455
01:08:45,229 --> 01:08:43,739
quite aptly by the Forest Service and

1456
01:08:48,289 --> 01:08:45,239
just you know all these other things

1457
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:48,299
sort of a checklist when we do do a case

1458
01:08:52,940 --> 01:08:51,330
you you eliminate the most obvious all

1459
01:08:58,670 --> 01:08:52,950
the way down ultimately

1460
01:09:00,650 --> 01:08:58,680
we turned it in as an unknown thank you

1461
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:00,660
very much for that and was that Sharon

1462
01:09:07,610 --> 01:09:04,770
who was talking by the way yes sorry

1463
01:09:13,220 --> 01:09:07,620
Sharon please do go ahead thank you well

1464
01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:13,230
one of my very first cases as an SI was

1465
01:09:22,729 --> 01:09:17,520
with a minor who was in the Bradshaw's

1466
01:09:24,499 --> 01:09:22,739
and he was mining at night and it was

1467
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:24,509
about 1 o'clock in the morning he came

1468
01:09:31,789 --> 01:09:28,850
down a dirt road trying to go home and

1469
01:09:36,289 --> 01:09:31,799
ended up with red orb

1470
01:09:39,410 --> 01:09:36,299
following his car and it scared him very

1471
01:09:42,830 --> 01:09:39,420
badly so he came to a little town called

1472
01:09:45,770 --> 01:09:42,840
Congress and at one o'clock in the

1473
01:09:51,850 --> 01:09:45,780
morning Congress is a crossroads so no

1474
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:51,860
one is awake and stirring and this thing

1475
01:09:58,310 --> 01:09:55,650
hovered on the hood of his car and he

1476
01:10:01,070 --> 01:09:58,320
felt like he was being watched he felt

1477
01:10:07,940 --> 01:10:01,080
like there was intelligence behind this

1478
01:10:14,780 --> 01:10:07,950
and the poor man was so frightened that

1479
01:10:18,020 --> 01:10:14,790
he wet his pants so I investigated along

1480
01:10:21,010 --> 01:10:18,030
with another investigator and we both

1481
01:10:26,030 --> 01:10:21,020
felt that this was an authentic case it

1482
01:10:28,370 --> 01:10:26,040
ended up being unidentified thank you

1483
01:10:31,310 --> 01:10:28,380
very much for that part of what MUFON

1484
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:31,320
investigates also is orb activity or

1485
01:10:38,270 --> 01:10:36,210
orbs is that correct yet why and this is

1486
01:10:41,390 --> 01:10:38,280
for yourself Sharon and anybody else who

1487
01:10:42,490 --> 01:10:41,400
wants to contribute to this topic why is

1488
01:10:50,050 --> 01:10:42,500
that

1489
01:11:00,080 --> 01:10:55,220
John Dover in in our investigations

1490
01:11:04,430 --> 01:11:00,090
we've seen a progression we've seen dis

1491
01:11:07,940 --> 01:11:04,440
or the the typical flying saucer we've

1492
01:11:11,870 --> 01:11:07,950
seen cases involving cigar shaped

1493
01:11:15,610 --> 01:11:11,880
objects both large and small we've seen

1494
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:15,620
other cases involving

1495
01:11:25,100 --> 01:11:20,610
DeltaWing craft or triangles we've even

1496
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:25,110
seen squares we started to see more and

1497
01:11:32,300 --> 01:11:28,410
more orbs and many of these were

1498
01:11:36,050 --> 01:11:32,310
actually it appeared to be under

1499
01:11:36,820 --> 01:11:36,060
intelligent control the direction they

1500
01:11:40,220 --> 01:11:36,830
were going

1501
01:11:43,900 --> 01:11:40,230
hugging close to the ground stopping and

1502
01:11:48,740 --> 01:11:43,910
and you know basically looking at people

1503
01:11:51,570 --> 01:11:48,750
or chasing them away from areas and so

1504
01:11:54,180 --> 01:11:51,580
it becomes a whole subset

1505
01:12:01,620 --> 01:11:54,190
of the different types of craft that are

1506
01:12:04,740 --> 01:12:01,630
encountered in UFO cases great thank you

1507
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:04,750
very much for that Jim and Stacey was

1508
01:12:11,100 --> 01:12:08,770
going to ask you a wide why do you feel

1509
01:12:15,420 --> 01:12:11,110
orbs are important for MUFON to

1510
01:12:17,820 --> 01:12:15,430
investigate well this is Jim I orbs have

1511
01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:17,830
not always been something that move up

1512
01:12:25,140 --> 01:12:22,480
bothers to investigate orbs are one of

1513
01:12:29,220 --> 01:12:25,150
those things that kind of urge or kind

1514
01:12:32,340 --> 01:12:29,230
of kind of go between what's paranormal

1515
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:32,350
and what's actually physical science

1516
01:12:37,580 --> 01:12:35,050
that were that were investigating but as

1517
01:12:41,370 --> 01:12:37,590
John Dober had just mentioned that

1518
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:41,380
sometimes these orbs display intelligent

1519
01:12:46,650 --> 01:12:42,370
control

1520
01:12:48,420 --> 01:12:46,660
and so therefore we you know we we've

1521
01:12:50,130 --> 01:12:48,430
we've kind of picked it up over the

1522
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:50,140
years is something that we're going to

1523
01:12:55,220 --> 01:12:52,930
investigate MUFON has been in a constant

1524
01:12:57,270 --> 01:12:55,230
state of evolution for 50 years and

1525
01:13:00,120 --> 01:12:57,280
there was a time we would have never

1526
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:00,130
touched a report of an orb because we

1527
01:13:07,730 --> 01:13:01,930
would have just sort of well that's not

1528
01:13:10,260 --> 01:13:07,740
really a UFO but since they do display

1529
01:13:14,300 --> 01:13:10,270
intelligent control and I think that is

1530
01:13:17,670 --> 01:13:14,310
probably the only reason we even bother

1531
01:13:19,020 --> 01:13:17,680
investigating orbs but orbs Azure it's

1532
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:19,030
kind of a strange little thing because

1533
01:13:24,390 --> 01:13:21,970
many times people will see orbs in their

1534
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:24,400
photographs not necessarily with their

1535
01:13:28,170 --> 01:13:26,410
own with their naked eye they'll see

1536
01:13:31,500 --> 01:13:28,180
them in photographs that show up later

1537
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:31,510
on mark will tell you that there's been

1538
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:35,410
so many photographs admitted t to move

1539
01:13:41,910 --> 01:13:39,010
on where there's been an over you know

1540
01:13:43,770 --> 01:13:41,920
and it turned out that it was a some

1541
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:43,780
sort of uh you know a camera the camera

1542
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:47,650
anomaly uh a lot of times folks will use

1543
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:50,290
the flash and what that will do is

1544
01:13:53,970 --> 01:13:51,850
there'll be little dust or dirt

1545
01:13:56,100 --> 01:13:53,980
particles in the air and they'll reflect

1546
01:13:58,830 --> 01:13:56,110
back very brightly look like orbs that

1547
01:14:00,370 --> 01:13:58,840
happen yeah and I'm sure Mark probably

1548
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:00,380
has some has

1549
01:14:06,250 --> 01:14:03,290
a good take on an orbs I'm sure he's

1550
01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:06,260
done his fair share of investigating

1551
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:08,510
photographs with orbs in my correct mark

1552
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:12,410
that is correct Jim I have and and as

1553
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:14,210
Frank just said you know it the bottom

1554
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:15,530
line is that if you have the flash I

1555
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:16,730
mean you take a picture at night and aim

1556
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:19,250
it up into the sky I guarantee you're

1557
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:23,690
gonna get beautiful orbs and I produced

1558
01:14:27,190 --> 01:14:25,370
many photographs when people show me a

1559
01:14:28,780 --> 01:14:27,200
photograph I don't just make

1560
01:14:31,480 --> 01:14:28,790
pronouncements as to what I think it is

1561
01:14:33,190 --> 01:14:31,490
I actually reproduce it if I can and

1562
01:14:35,230 --> 01:14:33,200
then I send them that photograph and say

1563
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:35,240
well I took this and and since it looks

1564
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:37,730
just like yours you have to have better

1565
01:14:42,340 --> 01:14:39,650
data to convince me that it's not just

1566
01:14:45,430 --> 01:14:42,350
this see I mean that's the diligence you

1567
01:14:47,500 --> 01:14:45,440
have to do we see and and the folks will

1568
01:14:48,490 --> 01:14:47,510
then move on you know they may hearken

1569
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:48,500
to that very well

1570
01:14:54,070 --> 01:14:52,250
so yes orbs can be flash artifacts

1571
01:14:55,420 --> 01:14:54,080
absolutely right wanted to talk to you

1572
01:14:58,090 --> 01:14:55,430
about something mark you and I have

1573
01:15:00,520 --> 01:14:58,100
talked about at length both on a show

1574
01:15:04,380 --> 01:15:00,530
and off the show and that is regarding

1575
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:04,390
up in the sky satellites going around

1576
01:15:09,670 --> 01:15:07,210
sometimes moving sometimes not and I

1577
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:09,680
wanted to couple that topic with

1578
01:15:16,740 --> 01:15:12,650
something that does happen and that is

1579
01:15:23,140 --> 01:15:16,750
folks who have tours around the world

1580
01:15:25,270 --> 01:15:23,150
who are dedicated to their guests

1581
01:15:27,130 --> 01:15:25,280
looking up in the sky and looking at

1582
01:15:30,340 --> 01:15:27,140
hopefully what they what they hope to

1583
01:15:34,480 --> 01:15:30,350
see is UFO activity when in when in

1584
01:15:38,620 --> 01:15:34,490
actuality they're they're looking at

1585
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:38,630
satellites now one thing we also wanted

1586
01:15:43,390 --> 01:15:40,610
to make clear on the show to everybody

1587
01:15:46,900 --> 01:15:43,400
is look up satellite activity look up

1588
01:15:49,090 --> 01:15:46,910
apps that you can good apps that you can

1589
01:15:51,730 --> 01:15:49,100
use to find out which satellites are in

1590
01:15:53,860 --> 01:15:51,740
the sky that's fine but then also know

1591
01:15:56,470 --> 01:15:53,870
that there are top-secret satellites

1592
01:15:58,750 --> 01:15:56,480
that are used that will not be listed on

1593
01:16:00,550 --> 01:15:58,760
those apps so just because it's not

1594
01:16:02,590 --> 01:16:00,560
listed in the app and you're looking at

1595
01:16:04,210 --> 01:16:02,600
the sky going oh wow that's not listed

1596
01:16:07,060 --> 01:16:04,220
in my satellite app doesn't mean it's

1597
01:16:09,310 --> 01:16:07,070
not a satellite can you please let us

1598
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:09,320
know what your personal your perspective

1599
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:10,250
is on that topic

1600
01:16:15,819 --> 01:16:13,010
sure I've actually been

1601
01:16:17,799 --> 01:16:15,829
as a trying to be a silent observer on

1602
01:16:20,620 --> 01:16:17,809
some of these outings I've actually gone

1603
01:16:22,930 --> 01:16:20,630
on these outings and I just can't be

1604
01:16:25,810 --> 01:16:22,940
quiet sometimes because when I hear the

1605
01:16:29,049 --> 01:16:25,820
person leading the outing giving really

1606
01:16:31,419 --> 01:16:29,059
really incorrect information you know as

1607
01:16:34,359 --> 01:16:31,429
we know it or saying things that aren't

1608
01:16:36,669 --> 01:16:34,369
correct I I tend to say I can't let this

1609
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:36,679
go huh and you know that's a fault of

1610
01:16:40,270 --> 01:16:38,090
mine you know I want it correct but I

1611
01:16:41,799 --> 01:16:40,280
gently do it and I do it aside Oh out of

1612
01:16:44,259 --> 01:16:41,809
the public view I don't want them to be

1613
01:16:46,029 --> 01:16:44,269
embarrassed because it but the problem I

1614
01:16:47,620 --> 01:16:46,039
have is if you're charging someone to

1615
01:16:49,930 --> 01:16:47,630
come out and and you're guaranteeing

1616
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:49,940
them that you're gonna see UFOs you're

1617
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:51,650
already studying up a bad premise and

1618
01:16:56,879 --> 01:16:53,449
and that's not good

1619
01:16:59,259 --> 01:16:56,889
there was a guy who did I was at a

1620
01:17:01,569 --> 01:16:59,269
conference talk in Las Vegas and I

1621
01:17:03,759 --> 01:17:01,579
talked about these objects in the sky

1622
01:17:05,439 --> 01:17:03,769
and I demonstrated how they could

1623
01:17:08,740 --> 01:17:05,449
actually be bats and insects being

1624
01:17:10,330 --> 01:17:08,750
caught in the infrared as the cameras

1625
01:17:12,069 --> 01:17:10,340
looking up because infrareds a new

1626
01:17:13,589 --> 01:17:12,079
technology for most people they it's

1627
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:13,599
been around for many many years decades

1628
01:17:18,580 --> 01:17:16,730
upon decades but not many people get to

1629
01:17:19,839 --> 01:17:18,590
actually experiment with it play with it

1630
01:17:22,330 --> 01:17:19,849
so when they see things in the sky they

1631
01:17:25,149 --> 01:17:22,340
look god well there's one guy he was

1632
01:17:27,790 --> 01:17:25,159
charging people upwards of 50 to $75 a

1633
01:17:29,859 --> 01:17:27,800
head and taking out 25 or 30 people at a

1634
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:29,869
time and quote-unquote guaranteeing them

1635
01:17:34,810 --> 01:17:32,690
that they would see UFOs and I didn't

1636
01:17:35,919 --> 01:17:34,820
take him on directly I just said well

1637
01:17:39,490 --> 01:17:35,929
when they look up in the sky with these

1638
01:17:42,310 --> 01:17:39,500
night-vision scopes you you will most

1639
01:17:46,029 --> 01:17:42,320
likely see insects and bats and we can

1640
01:17:47,649 --> 01:17:46,039
prove that you know and this man took

1641
01:17:49,890 --> 01:17:47,659
such issue with that that he approached

1642
01:17:52,450 --> 01:17:49,900
me to punch me in the face after my talk

1643
01:17:53,770 --> 01:17:52,460
and luckily he didn't and he was

1644
01:17:58,180 --> 01:17:53,780
arrested the next day actually for

1645
01:18:01,509 --> 01:17:58,190
having fun so someone else anyway so you

1646
01:18:03,009 --> 01:18:01,519
can see those with passions fly passions

1647
01:18:05,500 --> 01:18:03,019
fly and for the record I held my ground

1648
01:18:07,060 --> 01:18:05,510
and I didn't change my outlook because I

1649
01:18:09,430 --> 01:18:07,070
knew that in that case I was on the

1650
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:09,440
right side so but yes there are

1651
01:18:12,970 --> 01:18:11,210
satellites and when the satellite goes

1652
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:12,980
over you'll see that it will seem to

1653
01:18:17,740 --> 01:18:16,250
fade in and seem to fade out some of the

1654
01:18:19,810 --> 01:18:17,750
erroneous information you get is that

1655
01:18:21,689 --> 01:18:19,820
satellites always go horizon the horizon

1656
01:18:24,220 --> 01:18:21,699
that's absolutely untrue

1657
01:18:26,510 --> 01:18:24,230
another thing you hear about is that

1658
01:18:28,910 --> 01:18:26,520
satellites will

1659
01:18:30,890 --> 01:18:28,920
change colors and if they do change

1660
01:18:32,570 --> 01:18:30,900
colors that UFOs not satellites well

1661
01:18:34,940 --> 01:18:32,580
that's absolutely false they do change

1662
01:18:36,590 --> 01:18:34,950
colors because for them as they're going

1663
01:18:38,180 --> 01:18:36,600
into the dark side of the earth they're

1664
01:18:40,190 --> 01:18:38,190
seeing the sunset from their point of

1665
01:18:42,440 --> 01:18:40,200
view and what colors the sunset orange

1666
01:18:45,110 --> 01:18:42,450
so the satellites tend to get yellowish

1667
01:18:47,690 --> 01:18:45,120
orange just before they fade out every

1668
01:18:49,729 --> 01:18:47,700
single time so you know there's a lot of

1669
01:18:53,330 --> 01:18:49,739
a lot of stuff that people don't

1670
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:53,340
understand and as you're aware of and is

1671
01:18:57,920 --> 01:18:55,890
your your showing there are a lot of

1672
01:19:00,110 --> 01:18:57,930
applications you can use to actually

1673
01:19:03,020 --> 01:19:00,120
determine whether something is a

1674
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:03,030
satellite and now I use go Sat watch

1675
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:06,210
which is actually a iPhone application -

1676
01:19:09,979 --> 01:19:08,400
I know I see you have Geo set watch

1677
01:19:13,340 --> 01:19:09,989
there that the one I have it's called go

1678
01:19:14,959 --> 01:19:13,350
set watch and it will show you where all

1679
01:19:16,750 --> 01:19:14,969
the satellites are over your head and

1680
01:19:18,650 --> 01:19:16,760
will even give you the Iridium flasher

1681
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:18,660
times when you actually see these

1682
01:19:24,380 --> 01:19:21,090
spectacular flashes in the sky that

1683
01:19:25,910 --> 01:19:24,390
lasts like a second they just get so

1684
01:19:28,070 --> 01:19:25,920
bright sometimes you can see your shadow

1685
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:28,080
by this flash that's how bright they can

1686
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:31,410
get and then they go away so yes there's

1687
01:19:34,850 --> 01:19:33,090
a lot of satellites up there and many

1688
01:19:39,110 --> 01:19:34,860
many more thanks to Elon Musk throwing

1689
01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:39,120
up the new network of satellites in fact

1690
01:19:43,250 --> 01:19:41,250
UFO case I got a UFO case just recently

1691
01:19:46,340 --> 01:19:43,260
from someone sent me a photo which was

1692
01:19:50,030 --> 01:19:46,350
really quite well done it was real it

1693
01:19:52,729 --> 01:19:50,040
was 64 dots in the sky all behind each

1694
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:52,739
other all traveling through the sky it's

1695
01:19:58,430 --> 01:19:54,930
really quite stunning but it's really

1696
01:20:01,040 --> 01:19:58,440
just Elon Musk you know as it was

1697
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:01,050
launched at the 60 for satellites he was

1698
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:02,370
putting up there for the internet for

1699
01:20:09,229 --> 01:20:05,730
the world thing very interesting but

1700
01:20:15,590 --> 01:20:09,239
unfortunately very human yeah real quick

1701
01:20:17,870 --> 01:20:15,600
guys Jim just when was it marked that

1702
01:20:20,990 --> 01:20:17,880
they at Starling the Starling mission

1703
01:20:23,180 --> 01:20:21,000
had just launched those satellites we

1704
01:20:27,650 --> 01:20:23,190
had I think we picked up like eight or

1705
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:27,660
nine cases was it November 11th eight or

1706
01:20:31,550 --> 01:20:29,130
nine cases I mean people thought that

1707
01:20:33,020 --> 01:20:31,560
the Phoenix lights were back they they

1708
01:20:36,740 --> 01:20:33,030
thought all you know all sorts of things

1709
01:20:39,440 --> 01:20:36,750
and yeah but the StarLink mission is

1710
01:20:40,340 --> 01:20:39,450
really gonna gonna complicate things

1711
01:20:44,170 --> 01:20:40,350
here in the next

1712
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:44,180
few years as far as the sky so

1713
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:46,650
especially for me I'm an astronomer so

1714
01:20:51,170 --> 01:20:48,570
and I'm building an observatory in

1715
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:51,180
Arizona right now okay it's gonna be in

1716
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:53,330
a Sonoran Desert and I guarantee you

1717
01:20:58,580 --> 01:20:55,850
when I look toward the celestial equator

1718
01:21:00,800 --> 01:20:58,590
I'm gonna see a lot of geosynchronous

1719
01:21:02,540 --> 01:21:00,810
satellites in my views and when I look

1720
01:21:04,220 --> 01:21:02,550
elsewhere we're gonna catch a lot going

1721
01:21:06,830 --> 01:21:04,230
through we did it the other night last

1722
01:21:09,770 --> 01:21:06,840
night we streamed for two hours and we

1723
01:21:11,570 --> 01:21:09,780
caught two satellites at a time passing

1724
01:21:14,510 --> 01:21:11,580
through our field some time where they

1725
01:21:16,220 --> 01:21:14,520
StarLink maybe either way they're

1726
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:16,230
they're stinky link I don't like them

1727
01:21:20,330 --> 01:21:18,930
they ruin our pictures but they take

1728
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:20,340
away from the data you can get for

1729
01:21:24,910 --> 01:21:22,530
astronomy but that's the real real

1730
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:24,920
Bugaboo that people have about them I'll

1731
01:21:29,420 --> 01:21:26,730
them to see this guy

1732
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:29,430
thank you I also looked up satellites

1733
01:21:34,790 --> 01:21:30,960
recently and I was surprised to find

1734
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:34,800
that there are there is such thing as

1735
01:21:39,470 --> 01:21:36,930
satellites just staying still in the sky

1736
01:21:41,810 --> 01:21:39,480
not all of them do that but there are

1737
01:21:44,090 --> 01:21:41,820
times that satellites will not move yes

1738
01:21:47,300 --> 01:21:44,100
those are the the geosynchronous birds

1739
01:21:49,010 --> 01:21:47,310
and what happens is they're 22,000 miles

1740
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:49,020
away from the earth in their orbital

1741
01:21:52,730 --> 01:21:50,970
altitude mm-hmm and they have to be that

1742
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:52,740
far away so that the speed they move in

1743
01:21:58,250 --> 01:21:54,810
their orbit puts them over the same

1744
01:22:01,450 --> 01:21:58,260
exact spot on the earth all right and

1745
01:22:05,570 --> 01:22:01,460
there's others that are anywhere between

1746
01:22:07,460 --> 01:22:05,580
you know 200 nautical miles up and 20 mm

1747
01:22:11,450 --> 01:22:07,470
and these objects depending on where

1748
01:22:13,750 --> 01:22:11,460
they are they could appear to move you

1749
01:22:16,310 --> 01:22:13,760
know at the same speed of the the stars

1750
01:22:21,260 --> 01:22:16,320
as well you know for different reasons

1751
01:22:23,540 --> 01:22:21,270
and so they really can be very oddly and

1752
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:23,550
that their motion characteristics motion

1753
01:22:28,250 --> 01:22:26,130
characteristics can be pretty odd so and

1754
01:22:30,770 --> 01:22:28,260
we have to take that apart you know now

1755
01:22:32,780 --> 01:22:30,780
I take part in some of these lunar sky

1756
01:22:33,590 --> 01:22:32,790
watches you know pn k space imaging

1757
01:22:35,450 --> 01:22:33,600
great guys

1758
01:22:37,700 --> 01:22:35,460
ok hours of sky through life and we do

1759
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:37,710
deep sky they do the moon well many

1760
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:39,090
times you'll see an object cross the

1761
01:22:44,030 --> 01:22:41,370
moon and people say oh look at UFO

1762
01:22:45,710 --> 01:22:44,040
crossing the moon well you can actually

1763
01:22:47,990 --> 01:22:45,720
calculate based on how far it goes

1764
01:22:49,820 --> 01:22:48,000
across the moon what size it is how fast

1765
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:49,830
and how long it takes to go you can

1766
01:22:54,500 --> 01:22:52,050
actually then figure out just what it is

1767
01:22:56,330 --> 01:22:54,510
you can see oh it's a satellite likely

1768
01:22:58,430 --> 01:22:56,340
particular satellite at this particular

1769
01:23:01,070 --> 01:22:58,440
altitude you have all that information

1770
01:23:03,020 --> 01:23:01,080
you can get and the ones that I like the

1771
01:23:05,210 --> 01:23:03,030
ones that don't match any of that now

1772
01:23:07,910 --> 01:23:05,220
those could be the dark birds the ones

1773
01:23:09,470 --> 01:23:07,920
that are in or DoD tasks the missions

1774
01:23:12,140 --> 01:23:09,480
which you won't get in a general

1775
01:23:15,770 --> 01:23:12,150
catalogue or they can be something more

1776
01:23:18,140 --> 01:23:15,780
right so unfortunately with everything

1777
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:18,150
out there we're not gonna get a really

1778
01:23:21,980 --> 01:23:19,770
good answer eventually you know maybe

1779
01:23:23,390 --> 01:23:21,990
eventually but not right now because

1780
01:23:25,610 --> 01:23:23,400
everyone's too secretive everyone's

1781
01:23:27,740 --> 01:23:25,620
keeping it all close to the vest thank

1782
01:23:31,100 --> 01:23:27,750
you for that I wanted to talk to the

1783
01:23:33,230 --> 01:23:31,110
team here and the rest of our guests

1784
01:23:35,770 --> 01:23:33,240
about these interesting applications we

1785
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:35,780
covered this on a show just dedicated to

1786
01:23:41,630 --> 01:23:39,570
UFO tools and applications and other

1787
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:41,640
items that folks might use for UFO

1788
01:23:45,530 --> 01:23:43,650
investigations I want to go ahead and

1789
01:23:47,780 --> 01:23:45,540
read off what I have in front of me and

1790
01:23:51,290 --> 01:23:47,790
the individual who wrote this up was

1791
01:23:52,670 --> 01:23:51,300
rich Hoffman that is and please correct

1792
01:23:56,150 --> 01:23:52,680
me if I'm saying anything wrong because

1793
01:23:58,640 --> 01:23:56,160
I will probably do that that is the

1794
01:24:00,800 --> 01:23:58,650
theodolite this is an app that has a

1795
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:00,810
camera records GPS the bearing can

1796
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:02,970
provide angular size and help compute

1797
01:24:07,100 --> 01:24:04,890
the distance and altitude for a few

1798
01:24:09,470 --> 01:24:07,110
bucks and a rich recommends this over

1799
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:09,480
the camera on the iPhone still REM this

1800
01:24:13,550 --> 01:24:12,210
is one of among many astronomy tools and

1801
01:24:15,650 --> 01:24:13,560
apps that allows you to determine

1802
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:15,660
whether the object is a star planet a

1803
01:24:21,890 --> 01:24:18,960
comment and more geo stat watch a geo

1804
01:24:22,580 --> 01:24:21,900
sat watch this are like satellites to

1805
01:24:29,450 --> 01:24:22,590
chant on

1806
01:24:31,250 --> 01:24:29,460
stellarium it's not that accurate we

1807
01:24:32,510 --> 01:24:31,260
actually tested it last night I used to

1808
01:24:33,140 --> 01:24:32,520
let him to control our Observatory

1809
01:24:36,890 --> 01:24:33,150
telescope

1810
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:36,900
okay it has hooks to do that and on the

1811
01:24:41,900 --> 01:24:38,370
satellites that were shown going through

1812
01:24:43,670 --> 01:24:41,910
the very object we're looking at we're

1813
01:24:49,410 --> 01:24:43,680
not present on the actual photographs so

1814
01:24:53,939 --> 01:24:51,570
it's not a cure it's not the best that

1815
01:24:56,669 --> 01:24:53,949
watch it's actually geo SAT watch it's

1816
01:24:57,750 --> 01:24:56,679
just go sat well that's okay that's okay

1817
01:25:00,419 --> 01:24:57,760
I mean that's for the iPhone that's the

1818
01:25:02,970 --> 01:25:00,429
one that it is and and and that's the

1819
01:25:04,260 --> 01:25:02,980
one that's actually the the the I say

1820
01:25:06,810 --> 01:25:04,270
quintessential app that will tell you

1821
01:25:08,669 --> 01:25:06,820
exactly where things are and I don't see

1822
01:25:11,129 --> 01:25:08,679
on your list I don't see heavens above

1823
01:25:13,050 --> 01:25:11,139
comm if no one has a cell phone they can

1824
01:25:15,359 --> 01:25:13,060
still get all this information heavens

1825
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:15,369
above comm you can see the satellites

1826
01:25:20,820 --> 01:25:18,850
and get historical data to see if it was

1827
01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:20,830
a satellite that someone saw this is an

1828
01:25:24,419 --> 01:25:22,210
extremely important tool for field

1829
01:25:26,160 --> 01:25:24,429
investigators I saw this thing go right

1830
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:26,170
across the sky right here when well at

1831
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:27,610
this time and at that location in the

1832
01:25:32,850 --> 01:25:30,010
sky the field investigate can go right

1833
01:25:34,890 --> 01:25:32,860
to heavens above comm put in that

1834
01:25:36,390 --> 01:25:34,900
historical date and time and see what

1835
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:36,400
was going through this guy and where at

1836
01:25:51,149 --> 01:25:49,740
what Mark was saying you know he's

1837
01:25:53,220 --> 01:25:51,159
talking about going down all these

1838
01:25:55,770 --> 01:25:53,230
listen at the bootcamp what they did

1839
01:25:59,580 --> 01:25:55,780
provide us with was an investigation

1840
01:26:01,109 --> 01:25:59,590
tools list and when I do my cases I go

1841
01:26:03,750 --> 01:26:01,119
through that and just start at the top

1842
01:26:05,550 --> 01:26:03,760
and just like Mark was saying you you

1843
01:26:07,859 --> 01:26:05,560
kind of rule out things and I just go

1844
01:26:11,070 --> 01:26:07,869
down that list but it includes UFO

1845
01:26:14,490 --> 01:26:11,080
Reporting agencies local media military

1846
01:26:16,220 --> 01:26:14,500
law enforcement airports all that type

1847
01:26:18,959 --> 01:26:16,230
of thing astronomical references

1848
01:26:21,149 --> 01:26:18,969
Geographic and so I just want to say

1849
01:26:23,430 --> 01:26:21,159
that's part of what we do as well as is

1850
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:23,440
all of those it's not just apps

1851
01:26:28,649 --> 01:26:26,530
sometimes locations internet-based as

1852
01:26:31,260 --> 01:26:28,659
well I'm glad you said that and by the

1853
01:26:33,090 --> 01:26:31,270
way everybody this is your show so

1854
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:33,100
interrupt me whenever you want because

1855
01:26:38,729 --> 01:26:36,610
it's not about what but I have this

1856
01:26:40,229 --> 01:26:38,739
error me it's about what you have to say

1857
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:40,239
so please do interrupt and thank you for

1858
01:26:44,189 --> 01:26:41,290
that was a very important contribution

1859
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:44,199
we appreciate that moving along here to

1860
01:26:48,780 --> 01:26:46,690
flightradar24 determine the aircraft

1861
01:26:50,669 --> 01:26:48,790
overhead Tesla meter leverages iPhone

1862
01:26:54,419 --> 01:26:50,679
Magna meter to measure background

1863
01:26:55,950 --> 01:26:54,429
radiation and then it says there are

1864
01:26:58,140 --> 01:26:55,960
small devices that can be added to your

1865
01:27:00,390 --> 01:26:58,150
smartphone we have I seek thermal

1866
01:27:02,860 --> 01:27:00,400
devices temperature and humidity devices

1867
01:27:05,590 --> 01:27:02,870
radiation detector devices

1868
01:27:08,290 --> 01:27:05,600
heavens above dot-com is what Mark

1869
01:27:10,390 --> 01:27:08,300
Dantonio recommended and I know that

1870
01:27:12,370 --> 01:27:10,400
Mark probably has a grocery list of

1871
01:27:14,590 --> 01:27:12,380
other applications but before I ask

1872
01:27:17,950 --> 01:27:14,600
about that what I was going to ask John

1873
01:27:20,230 --> 01:27:17,960
Dover what applications if any do you

1874
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:20,240
use on your iPhone or laptop if you're

1875
01:27:25,060 --> 01:27:22,850
doing an investigation of any kind

1876
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:25,070
whether it be for visual or anything

1877
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:27,770
else do you use any recording devices to

1878
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:30,050
record witnesses when they talk really

1879
01:27:34,650 --> 01:27:32,210
any kind of application at all do you

1880
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:34,660
use any kind of software in your

1881
01:27:41,260 --> 01:27:38,930
investigations and you might have your

1882
01:27:51,670 --> 01:27:41,270
mute my your mic muted just just so you

1883
01:27:56,650 --> 01:27:51,680
know okay it looks like John's

1884
01:27:58,300 --> 01:27:56,660
mic is muted yeah kanae any Wells after

1885
01:28:00,610 --> 01:27:58,310
John figures I'll help him out with that

1886
01:28:03,270 --> 01:28:00,620
can canadian anyone else contribute on

1887
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:03,280
that topic like shane like or Russell

1888
01:28:10,380 --> 01:28:05,930
can you go ahead John alright here John

1889
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:10,390
Arius okay I figured it out

1890
01:28:16,270 --> 01:28:14,570
okay here's we use every anything and

1891
01:28:21,780 --> 01:28:16,280
everything that we can get our hands on

1892
01:28:25,090 --> 01:28:21,790
to do an investigation we just I mean we

1893
01:28:27,820 --> 01:28:25,100
try to be as thorough as you can with

1894
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:27,830
with a lot of these cases so we're using

1895
01:28:34,380 --> 01:28:31,370
flight radar we're using star maps you

1896
01:28:41,530 --> 01:28:34,390
know for natural stuff we're using

1897
01:28:46,270 --> 01:28:41,540
satellite trackers and and aside from

1898
01:28:52,480 --> 01:28:46,280
that you know we we also had Believe It

1899
01:28:55,750 --> 01:28:52,490
or Not years before the video cameras

1900
01:28:57,850 --> 01:28:55,760
for police officers were being used you

1901
01:29:02,440 --> 01:28:57,860
could get them miniature versions of

1902
01:29:05,100 --> 01:29:02,450
those through online places like eBay or

1903
01:29:08,500 --> 01:29:05,110
Amazon you could get them through

1904
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:08,510
Brookstone and they would record for

1905
01:29:15,340 --> 01:29:12,410
about two hours which is about a good

1906
01:29:16,300 --> 01:29:15,350
interview and you could take it and

1907
01:29:18,130 --> 01:29:16,310
download it and

1908
01:29:21,270 --> 01:29:18,140
Dave that interviewed and I've got quite

1909
01:29:24,010 --> 01:29:21,280
a few of those still in my archives so

1910
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:24,020
we were using video technology a long

1911
01:29:29,200 --> 01:29:26,690
time before anybody else and it actually

1912
01:29:34,300 --> 01:29:29,210
saved some of our officers being accused

1913
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:34,310
of misconduct so yeah there's there's a

1914
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:37,610
lot of things out there and they're

1915
01:29:45,700 --> 01:29:42,650
tools you know bottom line your ability

1916
01:29:49,210 --> 01:29:45,710
as an investigator is key everything

1917
01:29:52,240 --> 01:29:49,220
else augments what you have and enhance

1918
01:29:57,670 --> 01:29:52,250
to it thank you for that I think Russell

1919
01:29:59,920 --> 01:29:57,680
and Shayne and I had wanted to I'm sorry

1920
01:30:02,470 --> 01:29:59,930
I had talked about these applications

1921
01:30:04,540 --> 01:30:02,480
and kind of go over a few that might

1922
01:30:07,480 --> 01:30:04,550
work for them that they may have used

1923
01:30:09,580 --> 01:30:07,490
and I was going to ask Russell and then

1924
01:30:12,130 --> 01:30:09,590
Shane Russ do you use any of the

1925
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:12,140
theodolites tellurium geo SAT watch

1926
01:30:17,860 --> 01:30:15,650
flightradar24 Tesla meter any any

1927
01:30:24,730 --> 01:30:17,870
applications at all on your iPhone or

1928
01:30:27,790 --> 01:30:24,740
your smartphone so to speak one you just

1929
01:30:30,700 --> 01:30:27,800
mentioned the flight radar one I also

1930
01:30:35,470 --> 01:30:30,710
used to learn quite a bit heavens above

1931
01:30:38,080 --> 01:30:35,480
is another one Google Earth you know and

1932
01:30:40,950 --> 01:30:38,090
I just do Google searches to on some of

1933
01:30:44,860 --> 01:30:40,960
the stuff just to see if anything else

1934
01:30:49,650 --> 01:30:44,870
has been reported on verify longitude

1935
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:49,660
latitude through apps those are the

1936
01:30:56,650 --> 01:30:54,050
primary ones I use okay great thank you

1937
01:30:59,620 --> 01:30:56,660
and Shane do you use any applications on

1938
01:31:00,970 --> 01:30:59,630
your laptop or any of your devices by

1939
01:31:04,990 --> 01:31:00,980
the way just one let our audience know

1940
01:31:08,770 --> 01:31:05,000
Shane actually runs a technology

1941
01:31:11,410 --> 01:31:08,780
department that is in his career so he

1942
01:31:14,590 --> 01:31:11,420
is involved in the realm of technology

1943
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:14,600
and not saying that you're the expert on

1944
01:31:18,670 --> 01:31:16,970
the panel but I I am saying that you do

1945
01:31:23,470 --> 01:31:18,680
know a little bit about technology so

1946
01:31:27,430 --> 01:31:23,480
you are tech savvy you might have your

1947
01:31:29,870 --> 01:31:27,440
mute mic your mic muted by the way Shane

1948
01:31:36,950 --> 01:31:29,880
that's bad when he just told he's just

1949
01:31:39,729 --> 01:31:36,960
technology guru and it's my committee if

1950
01:31:43,879 --> 01:31:39,739
that happened I did it to him I'm sorry

1951
01:31:47,479 --> 01:31:43,889
okay so uh anyway I wanted to ask if Jim

1952
01:31:50,840 --> 01:31:47,489
Marion or Stacy if they have used any of

1953
01:31:53,419 --> 01:31:50,850
these applications or applications of

1954
01:32:02,090 --> 01:31:53,429
any kind on any devices for any UFO

1955
01:32:06,109 --> 01:32:02,100
related investigations well we have we

1956
01:32:10,970 --> 01:32:06,119
use the Astronomy program all the time

1957
01:32:14,709 --> 01:32:10,980
stellarium I as the state director I

1958
01:32:18,109 --> 01:32:14,719
don't actually do field investigations I

1959
01:32:20,660 --> 01:32:18,119
certainly I handled the administrative

1960
01:32:25,090 --> 01:32:20,670
end of the of the chapter here but maybe

1961
01:32:28,700 --> 01:32:25,100
Maryanne can give a little input on this

1962
01:32:35,149 --> 01:32:28,710
Chad this Maryanne um basically I do

1963
01:32:39,140 --> 01:32:35,159
exactly like Tara you have a list of all

1964
01:32:41,090 --> 01:32:39,150
of the research engines that are better

1965
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:41,100
available that you just I just go down

1966
01:32:48,260 --> 01:32:44,610
each one Stellarium again the local

1967
01:32:50,060 --> 01:32:48,270
newspaper I get on the the national UFO

1968
01:32:51,649 --> 01:32:50,070
Reporting Center just go down

1969
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:51,659
chronologically and just see if there's

1970
01:32:56,410 --> 01:32:54,330
anything even on the Internet

1971
01:33:00,680 --> 01:32:56,420
see if there's anything out there that

1972
01:33:02,689 --> 01:33:00,690
that other people might have reported so

1973
01:33:06,290 --> 01:33:02,699
I just again I just go down a list one

1974
01:33:08,390 --> 01:33:06,300
the heavens above I just that was a new

1975
01:33:12,250 --> 01:33:08,400
one for me and that's fantastic and I'm

1976
01:33:15,790 --> 01:33:12,260
definitely adding that to my list oh

1977
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:15,800
great thank you very much for that input

1978
01:33:21,320 --> 01:33:18,090
mark I know there was something I had

1979
01:33:24,109 --> 01:33:21,330
wanted to talk to you about when you

1980
01:33:26,660 --> 01:33:24,119
have people who have insisted to you in

1981
01:33:34,089 --> 01:33:26,670
the past that they have captured

1982
01:33:36,350 --> 01:33:34,099
possible ET crafts in videos or photos I

1983
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:36,360
feel like I know you well enough to say

1984
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:40,170
that you're you're already you

1985
01:33:44,930 --> 01:33:41,850
already have a sense of scrutiny

1986
01:33:46,220 --> 01:33:44,940
building up regarding that but where you

1987
01:33:48,190 --> 01:33:46,230
want to go ahead and apply heavy

1988
01:33:51,440 --> 01:33:48,200
scrutiny to what they're talking about

1989
01:33:53,780 --> 01:33:51,450
but what I wanted to know is if it turns

1990
01:33:55,700 --> 01:33:53,790
out to be a drone and you you can

1991
01:33:58,750 --> 01:33:55,710
absolutely rule everything out and it is

1992
01:34:02,780 --> 01:33:58,760
absolutely a drone how do you prove that

1993
01:34:05,150 --> 01:34:02,790
that it is a drone and it's not anything

1994
01:34:07,370 --> 01:34:05,160
else or in addition to that how do you

1995
01:34:10,190 --> 01:34:07,380
prove it's a satellite and not anything

1996
01:34:13,070 --> 01:34:10,200
else yeah the truth is when you're going

1997
01:34:16,580 --> 01:34:13,080
when you're trying to say prove the

1998
01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:16,590
truth that that's possibly you know a

1999
01:34:20,180 --> 01:34:19,050
drone or not a satellite or something

2000
01:34:21,710 --> 01:34:20,190
like that

2001
01:34:23,660 --> 01:34:21,720
first of all I mean I have a fleet of

2002
01:34:25,370 --> 01:34:23,670
drones you know and one of my Jones is

2003
01:34:27,650 --> 01:34:25,380
in quit equip with the infrared system

2004
01:34:28,630 --> 01:34:27,660
so I can you know find lost kids or do

2005
01:34:30,710 --> 01:34:28,640
you know things like that

2006
01:34:32,330 --> 01:34:30,720
so I'm very familiar with drone

2007
01:34:36,710 --> 01:34:32,340
operations and how they operate how they

2008
01:34:38,780 --> 01:34:36,720
look they fly a certain way some drones

2009
01:34:41,030 --> 01:34:38,790
have wings like planes but other drones

2010
01:34:43,700 --> 01:34:41,040
are quadcopter type things or a

2011
01:34:46,550 --> 01:34:43,710
hexacopter octocopter you know you know

2012
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:46,560
four six or eight propeller systems

2013
01:34:53,870 --> 01:34:50,930
these things are are really quite

2014
01:34:57,980 --> 01:34:53,880
stunning they do amazing maneuvers they

2015
01:34:59,270 --> 01:34:57,990
act oddly in the sky but you know how do

2016
01:35:03,620 --> 01:34:59,280
you rule them out well you rule them out

2017
01:35:06,020 --> 01:35:03,630
only by how they may look to the eye as

2018
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:06,030
they move and sometimes I'll take video

2019
01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:07,170
footage of these things moving in the

2020
01:35:12,140 --> 01:35:10,530
sky and I'll accelerate them and by

2021
01:35:14,510 --> 01:35:12,150
accelerating them it picks up some of

2022
01:35:16,190 --> 01:35:14,520
the nuanced motions that you get that

2023
01:35:18,500 --> 01:35:16,200
you miss when it's group moving

2024
01:35:21,380 --> 01:35:18,510
gradually across the sky and that you

2025
01:35:24,290 --> 01:35:21,390
want so she can include flicking thumbs

2026
01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:24,300
on the control sticks as it's moving

2027
01:35:27,830 --> 01:35:25,770
through the sky when they're when it's

2028
01:35:30,980 --> 01:35:27,840
moving they're under human control so

2029
01:35:34,370 --> 01:35:30,990
there's a possibility now of figuring

2030
01:35:36,290 --> 01:35:34,380
out that way as far as a building of

2031
01:35:39,380 --> 01:35:36,300
skepticism I'm not always skeptical

2032
01:35:42,710 --> 01:35:39,390
actually I take every case as if it's an

2033
01:35:43,970 --> 01:35:42,720
actual real sighting and then the data

2034
01:35:46,850 --> 01:35:43,980
speaks for itself

2035
01:35:48,170 --> 01:35:46,860
you know and yeah when they when they

2036
01:35:49,880 --> 01:35:48,180
get the feeling that the data speaking

2037
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:49,890
for itself and it says ya know this is

2038
01:35:53,430 --> 01:35:51,530
actually just an ordinary object

2039
01:35:55,980 --> 01:35:53,440
potentially

2040
01:35:57,330 --> 01:35:55,990
then my other instincts kick in to say

2041
01:35:58,830 --> 01:35:57,340
okay now you got to prove it and then

2042
01:36:01,410 --> 01:35:58,840
you have to go through the measures to

2043
01:36:02,970 --> 01:36:01,420
try and prove it so like I said look for

2044
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:02,980
the nuanced motions either in fast

2045
01:36:07,440 --> 01:36:05,410
motion or whatever for like people that

2046
01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:07,450
are running drones and see where it's

2047
01:36:10,080 --> 01:36:07,930
going

2048
01:36:11,820 --> 01:36:10,090
I had one case come in where there were

2049
01:36:14,340 --> 01:36:11,830
these spiraling lights coming out of the

2050
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:14,350
sky really beautiful and it was real it

2051
01:36:19,970 --> 01:36:16,810
wasn't a hoax and it turned out it was

2052
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:19,980
skydivers no skydiving into a stadium

2053
01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:22,210
there's several of these cases that came

2054
01:36:25,950 --> 01:36:24,250
through and several of them I they were

2055
01:36:27,390 --> 01:36:25,960
not mine though there was one case that

2056
01:36:29,850 --> 01:36:27,400
came in with it someone sent it's mean

2057
01:36:33,390 --> 01:36:29,860
it was the skydivers and it was just

2058
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:33,400
like well see there's a lot of things

2059
01:36:36,660 --> 01:36:34,690
that are capable of you know getting

2060
01:36:38,790 --> 01:36:36,670
your attention and now I know that

2061
01:36:40,740 --> 01:36:38,800
skydivers diving in with flares on their

2062
01:36:49,590 --> 01:36:40,750
legs for a long distance can look like

2063
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:49,600
really oddly shaped UFOs so yeah thank

2064
01:36:54,540 --> 01:36:51,610
you very much for letting us know about

2065
01:36:56,430 --> 01:36:54,550
that I really appreciate that and wanted

2066
01:36:59,610 --> 01:36:56,440
to go ahead and start wrapping up the

2067
01:37:01,590 --> 01:36:59,620
show and are there any last parting

2068
01:37:09,900 --> 01:37:01,600
statements that anybody wanted to make

2069
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:09,910
regarding the show okay we'll get back

2070
01:37:18,260 --> 01:37:14,850
to Mary go ahead rust sorry okay

2071
01:37:21,840 --> 01:37:18,270
regarding the boot camp one of the

2072
01:37:24,030 --> 01:37:21,850
advantages to attending is you make a

2073
01:37:26,940 --> 01:37:24,040
lot of friends across the country and

2074
01:37:29,670 --> 01:37:26,950
with that you also establish your own

2075
01:37:35,130 --> 01:37:29,680
personal network of other investigators

2076
01:37:38,220 --> 01:37:35,140
and and investigators talk to each other

2077
01:37:41,250 --> 01:37:38,230
we don't necessarily share names of you

2078
01:37:43,790 --> 01:37:41,260
know the people are stuff like that but

2079
01:37:46,260 --> 01:37:43,800
we we report what happened and

2080
01:37:48,390 --> 01:37:46,270
particularly ones that are interesting

2081
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:48,400
or odd and you can gain a lot of

2082
01:37:52,590 --> 01:37:50,890
information from clear across the

2083
01:37:54,540 --> 01:37:52,600
country or Canada

2084
01:37:56,970 --> 01:37:54,550
simply by attending and making

2085
01:38:02,760 --> 01:37:56,980
environment it's an establishing your

2086
01:38:06,220 --> 01:38:02,770
own Network and because this this topic

2087
01:38:09,750 --> 01:38:06,230
is always full of surprises

2088
01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:09,760
and it's your forever learning so

2089
01:38:17,080 --> 01:38:12,770
attending the bootcamp I've been to

2090
01:38:20,229 --> 01:38:17,090
three now I was I was a student in the

2091
01:38:21,720 --> 01:38:20,239
first gentleman his last one I saw

2092
01:38:25,330 --> 01:38:21,730
through it I photographed everything

2093
01:38:29,140 --> 01:38:25,340
I've learned something from every single

2094
01:38:31,030 --> 01:38:29,150
one of them and and and I've established

2095
01:38:35,500 --> 01:38:31,040
some great friendships but also I've

2096
01:38:37,570 --> 01:38:35,510
established networks of learning so that

2097
01:38:39,250 --> 01:38:37,580
is important that you did that thank you

2098
01:38:41,439 --> 01:38:39,260
very much for having done that I know

2099
01:38:43,060 --> 01:38:41,449
Maryann wanted to speak please go ahead

2100
01:38:46,060 --> 01:38:43,070
by the way I let Russ through just

2101
01:38:47,919 --> 01:38:46,070
because it's hard for him to hear at

2102
01:38:50,380 --> 01:38:47,929
times when were saying something so I

2103
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:50,390
apologize I meant for you to go ahead

2104
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:51,770
and go first but it was just due to a

2105
01:38:55,300 --> 01:38:53,690
tech issue that I let him go please go

2106
01:38:57,160 --> 01:38:55,310
ahead Maryann we want to hear what you

2107
01:39:01,780 --> 01:38:57,170
have to say that's quite all right

2108
01:39:03,400 --> 01:39:01,790
chant I love Russ he was my training

2109
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:03,410
field investigator and he was just

2110
01:39:07,750 --> 01:39:05,570
absolutely amazing I've learned so much

2111
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:07,760
from him so I have no problem going

2112
01:39:12,370 --> 01:39:10,010
second with Russ

2113
01:39:14,950 --> 01:39:12,380
hey just piggyback on what Mark said

2114
01:39:17,410 --> 01:39:14,960
about skydivers one of the things that I

2115
01:39:20,830 --> 01:39:17,420
like to do and I I kind of learned this

2116
01:39:24,669 --> 01:39:20,840
from our chief investigator Dennis is if

2117
01:39:27,910 --> 01:39:24,679
we can when we're taking the photo

2118
01:39:30,010 --> 01:39:27,920
evidence the video evidence what I'd

2119
01:39:33,070 --> 01:39:30,020
like to do is like skydivers like Mark

2120
01:39:35,979 --> 01:39:33,080
was talking about what I've done with my

2121
01:39:39,220 --> 01:39:35,989
husband we went out back a couple years

2122
01:39:43,540 --> 01:39:39,230
ago Gilbert had an event that happened

2123
01:39:45,700 --> 01:39:43,550
at night and we had skydivers come in

2124
01:39:48,130 --> 01:39:45,710
with players that nighttime skydivers

2125
01:39:51,910 --> 01:39:48,140
and they had the flares on their shoes

2126
01:39:54,070 --> 01:39:51,920
and we had probably Gilbert would get

2127
01:39:56,229 --> 01:39:54,080
her excuse me Phoenix MUFON would get

2128
01:39:58,870 --> 01:39:56,239
numerous calls the next day saying they

2129
01:40:01,350 --> 01:39:58,880
saw all these UFOs so what we started to

2130
01:40:03,970 --> 01:40:01,360
do was we would go out at night and

2131
01:40:07,959 --> 01:40:03,980
videotape all of this and we would put

2132
01:40:10,689 --> 01:40:07,969
it in a database I've had that I've

2133
01:40:13,780 --> 01:40:10,699
actually had an orb it looks like I was

2134
01:40:18,130 --> 01:40:13,790
taking a video of snow through a window

2135
01:40:18,669 --> 01:40:18,140
and when I looked at it later on I had

2136
01:40:20,919 --> 01:40:18,679
an axe

2137
01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:20,929
pink orb it was like it was coming from

2138
01:40:26,290 --> 01:40:23,090
outside through the window into my

2139
01:40:29,110 --> 01:40:26,300
camera it was amazing and come to find

2140
01:40:31,240 --> 01:40:29,120
it it was it was an under bit was just a

2141
01:40:36,160 --> 01:40:31,250
lens flare it was amazing but what I

2142
01:40:38,649 --> 01:40:36,170
tell people if possible is keep a log of

2143
01:40:42,910 --> 01:40:38,659
all these little a non-anonymous

2144
01:40:46,750 --> 01:40:42,920
I can talk and not normally happen and

2145
01:40:50,410 --> 01:40:46,760
we can have a journal of all this so if

2146
01:40:53,110 --> 01:40:50,420
we get a video on one of our CMS cases

2147
01:40:55,510 --> 01:40:53,120
we might be able to match it and see oh

2148
01:40:58,990 --> 01:40:55,520
wait a minute that's just a skydiver

2149
01:41:01,180 --> 01:40:59,000
because it it has the same properties as

2150
01:41:04,090 --> 01:41:01,190
a skydiver coming in so we can match

2151
01:41:07,810 --> 01:41:04,100
that up one one other thing that was

2152
01:41:11,169 --> 01:41:07,820
really good is mark made a video with

2153
01:41:15,459 --> 01:41:11,179
Alejandro Rojas and it was really cool

2154
01:41:18,580 --> 01:41:15,469
talking about these what looks like a

2155
01:41:21,430 --> 01:41:18,590
UFO but actually is someone taking video

2156
01:41:24,160 --> 01:41:21,440
or pictures and it's an actual bird and

2157
01:41:26,229 --> 01:41:24,170
a lot of times we get insects birds but

2158
01:41:28,720 --> 01:41:26,239
because they made this video that helped

2159
01:41:32,169 --> 01:41:28,730
me out tremendously that I was able to

2160
01:41:36,100 --> 01:41:32,179
look at one of my CMS cases and was able

2161
01:41:38,709 --> 01:41:36,110
to tell yes determined that was there

2162
01:41:40,899 --> 01:41:38,719
was a the person that did the report

2163
01:41:44,410 --> 01:41:40,909
actually he took the picture of a bird

2164
01:41:46,060 --> 01:41:44,420
and it's amazing but that's one thing I

2165
01:41:47,890 --> 01:41:46,070
was saying just about the skydivers is

2166
01:41:50,860 --> 01:41:47,900
if they can take video of an actual

2167
01:41:54,010 --> 01:41:50,870
skydiver keeping it an archive so if you

2168
01:41:55,810 --> 01:41:54,020
get a report on this that you can look

2169
01:41:58,120 --> 01:41:55,820
back and you'd be able to match that up

2170
01:42:00,100 --> 01:41:58,130
saying yes this is what this is probably

2171
01:42:04,540 --> 01:42:00,110
what it was that you saw there's a

2172
01:42:06,820 --> 01:42:04,550
YouTube's out there show that okay thank

2173
01:42:10,090 --> 01:42:06,830
you very much for for giving us your

2174
01:42:12,520 --> 01:42:10,100
input on on those topics and Shane I

2175
01:42:14,580 --> 01:42:12,530
don't know if your mic is on apologize I

2176
01:42:19,930 --> 01:42:14,590
had muted your mic that was my fault

2177
01:42:22,180 --> 01:42:19,940
Shane are you with us right now I think

2178
01:42:24,580 --> 01:42:22,190
there's actually tech issue going on for

2179
01:42:26,830 --> 01:42:24,590
Shane I was gonna ask if anybody else

2180
01:42:31,120 --> 01:42:26,840
had any last things to say before we

2181
01:42:32,169 --> 01:42:31,130
move forward on ending the show this is

2182
01:42:34,840 --> 01:42:32,179
Sharon

2183
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:34,850
one thing I wanted to say was that in

2184
01:42:43,300 --> 01:42:37,850
the very beginning of our training Denis

2185
01:42:46,530 --> 01:42:43,310
our chief investigator emphasized that

2186
01:42:51,430 --> 01:42:46,540
we record our interviews on a digital

2187
01:42:54,220 --> 01:42:51,440
reporter and that is a really invaluable

2188
01:42:56,740 --> 01:42:54,230
tool because you can go back and check

2189
01:42:59,320 --> 01:42:56,750
your accuracy you can go back and check

2190
01:43:02,080 --> 01:42:59,330
exactly what the witness said during the

2191
01:43:06,340 --> 01:43:02,090
interview and you have a record of that

2192
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:06,350
interview wow that's great that's good

2193
01:43:09,850 --> 01:43:08,330
to know yeah it's really important for

2194
01:43:12,610 --> 01:43:09,860
us to have these last parting tips

2195
01:43:14,530 --> 01:43:12,620
because our listeners take them to heart

2196
01:43:16,030 --> 01:43:14,540
and they actually our listeners are very

2197
01:43:18,850 --> 01:43:16,040
serious about what we cover they make

2198
01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:18,860
notes on it and it's important for

2199
01:43:23,229 --> 01:43:21,250
everybody to have extra tips like that

2200
01:43:25,300 --> 01:43:23,239
thank you Mark for having been on the

2201
01:43:27,729 --> 01:43:25,310
show he's actually he has to take off is

2202
01:43:30,939 --> 01:43:27,739
a very busy schedule today

2203
01:43:32,439 --> 01:43:30,949
but John Dover before we head out here

2204
01:43:34,870 --> 01:43:32,449
is there anything important that you

2205
01:43:38,770 --> 01:43:34,880
have left to contribute to the topics

2206
01:43:43,120 --> 01:43:38,780
that we've covered today oh sure

2207
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:43,130
we one of the things I'm very interested

2208
01:43:48,280 --> 01:43:45,770
in you have to understand that when when

2209
01:43:51,880 --> 01:43:48,290
my buddy Stan and I were assigned these

2210
01:43:54,939 --> 01:43:51,890
cases we we didn't we knew about them

2211
01:43:56,470 --> 01:43:54,949
that happened all the time we've had

2212
01:44:01,479 --> 01:43:56,480
sightings of our own

2213
01:44:04,959 --> 01:44:01,489
however we were voluntold to do these

2214
01:44:11,200 --> 01:44:04,969
cases we didn't jump out and say yeah we

2215
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:11,210
want to do them and in doing these cases

2216
01:44:18,220 --> 01:44:14,330
we found out that there is something to

2217
01:44:21,580 --> 01:44:18,230
it you have to understand that for us as

2218
01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:21,590
criminal investigators we look at what's

2219
01:44:27,790 --> 01:44:25,010
what kind of evidence is acceptable into

2220
01:44:30,790 --> 01:44:27,800
a court of law that you could use to

2221
01:44:36,010 --> 01:44:30,800
convict somebody and put them in jail

2222
01:44:39,669 --> 01:44:36,020
and we've seen enough evidence to show

2223
01:44:43,229 --> 01:44:39,679
that the UFO phenomenon is real there is

2224
01:44:44,669 --> 01:44:43,239
something to it we don't know what it is

2225
01:44:49,140 --> 01:44:44,679
hence

2226
01:44:52,140 --> 01:44:49,150
the investigator bootcamp and when you

2227
01:44:55,830 --> 01:44:52,150
become an investigator you it's a

2228
01:44:59,459 --> 01:44:55,840
lifelong thing you will learn I learned

2229
01:45:04,110 --> 01:44:59,469
things at the boot camp that were

2230
01:45:06,780 --> 01:45:04,120
totally new to me and so you know it's

2231
01:45:10,729 --> 01:45:06,790
it's great it was really great

2232
01:45:13,290 --> 01:45:10,739
experience very grateful for you to have

2233
01:45:14,700 --> 01:45:13,300
taken time to be on our show today John

2234
01:45:25,200 --> 01:45:14,710
Dover

2235
01:45:27,450 --> 01:45:25,210
he is a Navajo Nation's sorry Ranger yes

2236
01:45:29,220 --> 01:45:27,460
sorry I I have a I have a guest list

2237
01:45:30,600 --> 01:45:29,230
here of a dozen people and I was looking

2238
01:45:32,220 --> 01:45:30,610
for your name apologize for that thank

2239
01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:32,230
you very much for filling in on that and

2240
01:45:37,320 --> 01:45:34,810
then we had Mark Dantonio today who is a

2241
01:45:40,740 --> 01:45:37,330
MUFON chief video photo analyst and

2242
01:45:42,120 --> 01:45:40,750
astronomer and then we also had in no

2243
01:45:44,010 --> 01:45:42,130
particular order here I'm just going to

2244
01:45:45,990 --> 01:45:44,020
mention who's been on the show and we

2245
01:45:49,050 --> 01:45:46,000
had as Shane heard field investigator

2246
01:45:55,439 --> 01:45:49,060
for Arizona MUFON Tara Delius same and

2247
01:45:56,820 --> 01:45:55,449
then we are Oh Gwen our luma funds

2248
01:46:03,649 --> 01:45:56,830
experience your team member we also had

2249
01:46:07,229 --> 01:46:03,659
Mary on field investigator and the

2250
01:46:09,030 --> 01:46:07,239
earths and then Stacey Wright is the

2251
01:46:12,060 --> 01:46:09,040
assistant director and before we go I

2252
01:46:13,470 --> 01:46:12,070
would like for Jim and Stacey either one

2253
01:46:15,720 --> 01:46:13,480
of you if you wouldn't mind and also

2254
01:46:18,120 --> 01:46:15,730
Russell as as built by the way very

2255
01:46:21,450 --> 01:46:18,130
important to say his name who's been on

2256
01:46:23,720 --> 01:46:21,460
another show with us wanted to ask Jim

2257
01:46:26,250 --> 01:46:23,730
and Stacey could you please let us know

2258
01:46:30,689 --> 01:46:26,260
what the state of Arizona gave to you

2259
01:46:33,209 --> 01:46:30,699
all so that you could have for everybody

2260
01:46:34,979 --> 01:46:33,219
to come and see it was something I

2261
01:46:36,959 --> 01:46:34,989
wanted to go actually see you all in

2262
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:36,969
person and do an interview with you on

2263
01:46:41,220 --> 01:46:39,370
regarding mass sighting could you please

2264
01:46:45,979 --> 01:46:41,230
let our listeners know what they can go

2265
01:46:51,750 --> 01:46:49,380
well we have monthly meetings at Phoenix

2266
01:46:53,850 --> 01:46:51,760
move on we have been doing meetings and

2267
01:46:56,669 --> 01:46:53,860
presentations there for over 12 years

2268
01:46:57,450 --> 01:46:56,679
without missing one month so if anyone

2269
01:46:59,790 --> 01:46:57,460
wants to come

2270
01:47:02,490 --> 01:46:59,800
a really great informative afternoon

2271
01:47:04,590 --> 01:47:02,500
they can look us up at Phoenix MUFON

2272
01:47:07,350 --> 01:47:04,600
comm and find out who our guest speakers

2273
01:47:08,910 --> 01:47:07,360
are and what the subject matter is if

2274
01:47:10,770 --> 01:47:08,920
anyone is interested in attending the

2275
01:47:12,060 --> 01:47:10,780
boot camp we will be holding it again

2276
01:47:15,840 --> 01:47:12,070
this next November

2277
01:47:18,690 --> 01:47:15,850
it'll be November 6th 7th and 8th here

2278
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:18,700
in Mesa Arizona again and we will follow

2279
01:47:22,260 --> 01:47:20,530
a little bit of the same protocol that

2280
01:47:24,570 --> 01:47:22,270
we had the last two years because it

2281
01:47:25,950 --> 01:47:24,580
works so successfully so if anyone is

2282
01:47:29,670 --> 01:47:25,960
interested in that they can register for

2283
01:47:32,700 --> 01:47:29,680
that through MUFON comm great and then

2284
01:47:34,290 --> 01:47:32,710
was there also something given to you by

2285
01:47:37,440 --> 01:47:34,300
the state of Arizona or the City of

2286
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:37,450
Phoenix regarding a mass sighting is

2287
01:47:43,080 --> 01:47:39,610
there anything that you have regarding

2288
01:47:46,350 --> 01:47:43,090
that well we can tell you is that an

2289
01:47:48,480 --> 01:47:46,360
exhibit yeah yeah at the Arizona

2290
01:47:52,620 --> 01:47:48,490
Heritage Center or the Arizona

2291
01:47:55,320 --> 01:47:52,630
Historical Society Museum when we were

2292
01:47:56,820 --> 01:47:55,330
invited to come over there and start

2293
01:47:58,830 --> 01:47:56,830
having our meetings there we thought

2294
01:48:00,900 --> 01:47:58,840
that was wonderful but then they

2295
01:48:06,170 --> 01:48:00,910
extended to us the invitation to help

2296
01:48:10,170 --> 01:48:06,180
them put together a very stimulating

2297
01:48:13,440 --> 01:48:10,180
exhibit regarding the Phoenix lights and

2298
01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:13,450
so we jumped on that of course and so

2299
01:48:18,060 --> 01:48:15,370
now when you go to the museum the

2300
01:48:21,870 --> 01:48:18,070
Heritage Center there is this really

2301
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:21,880
cool exhibit of the Phoenix lights and

2302
01:48:26,010 --> 01:48:24,010
we're very proud of it it's actually the

2303
01:48:28,140 --> 01:48:26,020
very last exhibit you see when you

2304
01:48:29,610 --> 01:48:28,150
before you leave the building so it's

2305
01:48:31,770 --> 01:48:29,620
kind of like the last impression that

2306
01:48:34,740 --> 01:48:31,780
you get when you leave the museum was

2307
01:48:36,960 --> 01:48:34,750
like so that's kind of cool and in the

2308
01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:36,970
fact that the Arizona Historical Society

2309
01:48:43,350 --> 01:48:39,850
would view the Phoenix lights a UFO

2310
01:48:46,260 --> 01:48:43,360
sighting as a an actual historical event

2311
01:48:50,190 --> 01:48:46,270
is just that's phenomenal in itself so

2312
01:48:52,500 --> 01:48:50,200
it is like to just let everybody know

2313
01:48:55,020 --> 01:48:52,510
what the Phoenix lights also known as a

2314
01:48:56,220 --> 01:48:55,030
mass sighting was about and Jim thank

2315
01:48:58,650 --> 01:48:56,230
you very much for letting us know about

2316
01:49:00,540 --> 01:48:58,660
that exhibit that you have the privilege

2317
01:49:02,340 --> 01:49:00,550
of being able to show to everyone

2318
01:49:04,500 --> 01:49:02,350
there were a series of widely sighting

2319
01:49:06,050 --> 01:49:04,510
unidentified flying objects observed in

2320
01:49:08,610 --> 01:49:06,060
the skies over the US states of Arizona

2321
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:08,620
Nevada and the Mexican state of Sonora

2322
01:49:13,590 --> 01:49:11,050
on March 13 1997

2323
01:49:15,630 --> 01:49:13,600
and want to thank everybody for having

2324
01:49:19,230 --> 01:49:15,640
been on our show today I did also want

2325
01:49:22,080 --> 01:49:19,240
to point out that Gwen Farrell also is

2326
01:49:24,510 --> 01:49:22,090
mufon experience or team members she's

2327
01:49:26,580 --> 01:49:24,520
not just having had been a field

2328
01:49:28,710 --> 01:49:26,590
investigator but she's an experienced or

2329
01:49:30,120 --> 01:49:28,720
team member she specializes in that area

2330
01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:30,130
and has done so

2331
01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:32,170
Gwen did you say was that for 12 years

2332
01:49:37,860 --> 01:49:36,010
is that correct yes I've been working

2333
01:49:38,760 --> 01:49:37,870
with experiencers for almost 12 years

2334
01:49:40,200 --> 01:49:38,770
mm-hmm

2335
01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:40,210
I've only been with the experienced a

2336
01:49:44,520 --> 01:49:42,090
research team for about two years oh

2337
01:49:46,500 --> 01:49:44,530
okay thank you for letting us know that

2338
01:49:47,640 --> 01:49:46,510
thank you everybody for having taken the

2339
01:49:49,680 --> 01:49:47,650
time to have been on our show today

2340
01:49:52,770 --> 01:49:49,690
we're very grateful to you for having

2341
01:49:53,880 --> 01:49:52,780
done so and this wraps up our Phoenix

2342
01:49:56,910 --> 01:49:53,890
boot camp

2343
01:49:58,380 --> 01:49:56,920
MUFON special yep thanks everybody for

2344
01:50:01,080 --> 01:49:58,390
joining in we'll be back I think

2345
01:50:03,180 --> 01:50:01,090
Wednesday night thanks everybody on the

2346
01:50:05,400 --> 01:50:03,190
panel and that chant you did a great job